beng vs. pao quan

[johnwang]

I always found pao very similar to fair lady works shuttles.

I always like to ask people this question. Which move will you use in a fight, if you have trained:

- Xing Yi Pao Chuan.



- Taiji fair lady work on shuttle.



- long fist Ja Da (Tantui 5th road).

[BruceP]

I was lucky with my first two teachers
They set the path for all my future teaching
I hate to think where I would be now if I had some of the current crop

Same

Yeah, the current crop. Some here at RSF. Can you imagine?

Internal Martial Art:
Standard practice of general movement principles that is meaningless these days. Art sought in choreographic mimicry.

Sifu Self-own can't even explain it to himself in a way that points to anything practical.

Tai Chi Thoughts guy contradicts himself and doesn't even care as long as his blog gets attention.

Orangecat...whew

The other hack that doesn't know where their psychotropic delusion of understanding and attainment will land from one week to the next - acting on whatever manic impulse gives them the tingles at the time.

Piling more words on the thing only buries it deeper - putting it further out of reach. It's already out of reach for most people anyway - addictions, distractions and dependencies...living outside of oneself more and more each day and expecting to find IT.

There's more than one way up the hill - but only two more.

Digging deep into the the internal, intrinsic energy requires the luck of finding a teacher who has it, and then being around the right people who follow that teacher without altering or meddling with the teacher's process. Like what windwalker has been doing. A rare thing.

The other two require the practice of the fighting method(s) - lots of solo and lots of testing. One way involves building martial body with long weapons/tools/implements and empty hand solo. Another way involving empty hand and properly structured sparring. The in-house testing needs to be comprehensively structured in order to be congruent with the solo work so the carry-over is seamless. The antagonist applies pressure without regard for the method the other is working at internalizing, as often as not. That means contact using the lightest of touch to the hardest, and realistic patterns of attack. And then going out of the incubator and testing against people (non-initiates) who are genuinely trying to destroy their opponent.

Anything other than those three is less than a half-measure to developing Internal Martial Art.

[Quigga]

"Sifu Self-own can't even explain it to himself in a way that points to anything practical.

Tai Chi Thoughts guy contradicts himself and doesn't even care as long as his blog gets attention.

Orangecat...whew

The other hack that doesn't know where their psychotropic delusion of understanding and attainment will land from one week to the next - acting on whatever manic impulse gives them the tingles at the time."

Are you talking about anybody in particular on here?

[everything]

everyone probably. everyone here has hit red herrings and obstacles, many times without knowing until later (or could still be stuck in a phase without knowing). if not, you are lying to yourself or are statistically impossibly lucky (probably god-given talented as well) to have hit upon "The Way" early on. not sure how that's possible. It seems to have happened to YLC and maybe a few others only.

[origami_itto]

All I can say is at least I know where all of my files are.

[Appledog]

Are you talking about anybody in particular on here?

Does it really matter? But he and wayne are right about having a good teacher – a good teacher is required. I too have been blessed with good teachers. But because of that I would say finding a teacher is not the main problem. Finding a good teacher is easy. The problem is sticking with it. I’ve seen many people come to learn from famous teachers, and they all tend to quit before they get anywhere. There is always an excuse. Chen Zhonghua speaks about this in his 10 reasons for failure. It’s an interesting read.

However, Quigga, I have become much less cynical than wayne, BruceP and so forth. I don’t think you need a teacher who is the best teacher as long as you have the other points – sincerity and patience among the top three. I believe that following choreography is an excellent way to learn tai chi skills depending on how well the form has been preserved, and so long as you have the other points as mentioned above. Letting things happen naturally is one type of traditional foundation. It takes years and time. Everyone starts by copying their teacher until the teacher says it is good.

And if it takes you more than one lifetime there is no shame in that. You just need to believe in yourself.

[wayne hansen]

I don’t think I every mentioned having the Best Teacher
Just the right teacher

[Quigga]

What I meant to say is: if you want to insult people or talk trash, at least have the decency to do it upfront and call them by name.

Sometimes you get bad teachers to have the pleasure of removing the errors of their teachings by living through them.

[everything]

the problem is you can have very sincere teachers who are good at imparting what they know, but nobody knows they know nothing. so we get this "watered down" effect everyone points out. when you are really young, how do you know if your tennis teacher is any good? at least you can see he or she can hit the ball and have you do so with improvements.

[Quigga]

Very true.

[cloudz]

nope. mental and physical describe aspects of our sensorum. mental does not equal mind, physical does not equal body. fuzzy language, fuzzy thinking. there's no direct relationship to turn around. faulty logic. besides neuroscience does not support your views. let's agree to disagree. we are well into the weeds here. still waiting for your responses to several well reasoned issues regarding the OP.

they may do that as well, but was that the context?
I don't know if he said equal or implies it..the way he used them was understandable and reasonable I thought. the words are obviously related. We operate with a dualistic language, with dual categories. Language isn't Scientific and it doesn't need to be. The accusation of fuzzy language is interesting, because all language of this type is fuzzy if you choose to dig deep enough. Or choose to invoke other languages, as maybe used for science. It's why semantics and epistemology exist. without some rules, trust and agreement we would not get very far.

I think you pulled a fast one there. We can choose such things (dual categories) and speak about them as aspects of this or that (one thing).
Does that mean they are two sides of the same coin, well i guess so. Is everything we can talk about in the universe a different aspect of it. well i guess so.

mental
of or about the mind, or involving the process of thinking

physical


1.
relating to the body as opposed to the mind:



2.
relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind; tangible or concrete:
"the physical world"

If we open a brain up we won't find thoughts, intention or memory there, so talking about a sensorium is kind of irrelevant in some spoken contexts in regards mental and physical/ mind and body, I would have thought. Neuroscience demonstrates correlation not causation.

correct me if I've misunderstood.

[origami_itto]

the problem is you can have very sincere teachers who are good at imparting what they know, but nobody knows they know nothing. so we get this "watered down" effect everyone points out. when you are really young, how do you know if your tennis teacher is any good? at least you can see he or she can hit the ball and have you do so with improvements.

And there's the problem. Without a means of objectively measuring the results of your training and adjusting as needed you drift into entropy and irrelevance.

[origami_itto]

What I meant to say is: if you want to insult people or talk trash, at least have the decency to do it upfront and call them by name.

Really... this. You, Bruce, want to play yourself off as a martial artist but insist on coming at people sideways with this subliminal "mean girls" bullshit.

Like grow the fuck up.

I should have said something in response to your hateful and ignorant comments regarding mental health and psychiatric medication.

I don't enjoy saying negative things about people. I like to think the best of each of us drawn towards this vanishing practice of personal cultivation.

So I'm wondering what it is that you are so lacking in your life to provoke this spite. None of us are perfect but what need are you satisfying by cataloging our faults and polishing your descriptions of them to such complex and moving poetic expression.

"Sifu self own" I tip my hat. You have clearly put some thought into our dossiers.

Congratulations.

I hope you find your practice a more rewarding endeavor than your witticisms and would love to hear your constructive thoughts concerning your process.

[wayne hansen]

If the talking trash comment is directed at me I think your aim is off
I try hard not to talk trash about people instead to give an alternative view of what I feel is misleading
If not directed at me take your valuable advice and name the culprit

[origami_itto]

wayne I took it to mean he was referring to brucep.

You keep it to the arts and I respect that. It's irritating sometimes, sure, but you don't attack people's character and you tend to speak directly.