the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Doc Stier wrote:The answer is NOT to float from one style or teacher to another in search of 'secret teachings' or other imagined shortcuts.

There are NO SHORTCUTS!!!

Floating from teacher to teacher is a sign of insincerity.

精诚所至，金石为开 (Jīngchéng suǒ zhì, jīnshí wéi kāi) -- If you are sincere, you will naturally find the way.

Doc Stier wrote:Thus, relatively brief periods of time spent with every teacher, whether only a few months or a few years, just isn't enough to get the goods, even with the instruction and guidance of a great master. So unfair, I know, but it is what it is.

The answer is NOT to float from one style or teacher to another in search of 'secret teachings' or other imagined shortcuts.

There are NO SHORTCUTS!!!

Agreed.

Many public, commercial teachers, have a lot of diplomas and certifications they like to show up. They attend seminars and camps with "famous names" and use this in their marketing. What they learn over and over again are beginners exercise and "fundamentals". Despite being students of famous grandmasters, there's still no continuation in their studies and no depth in their knowledge.

You're all absolutely right. The only way to actually learn any of this is to accidentally stumble in the unmarked door of a kung fu master's private studio at the age of no later than ten and befriend his son, causing him to teach you the ancient secrets over the next 50 years until you don your white robe and cry on his tablet.

I don't know why everybody doesn't just do that. Why do they spend time looking for a teacher that is accessible, knowledgeable, ethical, personable, and an effective communicator while practicing the fundamental exercises to prepare their body for the best quality teaching when they can find it.

That just seems silly. The first person you meet who claims to teach Taijiquan is the only one you should get ANY information from on the subject, ever. That's the only way to get good.

origami_itto wrote:You're all absolutely right. The only way to actually learn any of this is to accidentally stumble in the unmarked door of a kung fu master's private studio at the age of no later than ten and befriend his son, causing him to teach you the ancient secrets over the next 50 years until you don your white robe and cry on his tablet.

I don't know why everybody doesn't just do that. Why do they spend time looking for a teacher that is accessible, knowledgeable, ethical, personable, and an effective communicator while practicing the fundamental exercises to prepare their body for the best quality teaching when they can find it.

That just seems silly. The first person you meet who claims to teach Taijiquan is the only one you should get ANY information from on the subject, ever. That's the only wat to get good.

That is exactly the problem. Most people just catch the first person they find, they don't know how to search and they certainly don't know that they should look for a "teacher that is accessible, knowledgeable, ethical, personable, and an effective communicator while practicing the fundamental exercises to prepare their body for the best quality teaching when they can find it"

You have references so you can make a good judgment, but most people haven't a clue that there are different schools within a style, about the various levels, differences of teaching methods etc, etc.

Sometimes you can find a teacher, very skilled or not, that is not publicly known, bit still teaches the goods. Sometimes you can find a public teacher that is skilled and is generous with his teaching. But if you take the first teacher you can find, and don't search, compare and make an effort to find the right teacher for you, then you are not controlling your destiny, you are just leaving it to luck, like buying a lottery ticket.

origami_itto wrote:You're all absolutely right. The only way to actually learn any of this is to accidentally stumble in the unmarked door of a kung fu master's private studio at the age of no later than ten and befriend his son, causing him to teach you the ancient secrets over the next 50 years until you don your white robe and cry on his tablet.

I don't know why everybody doesn't just do that. Why do they spend time looking for a teacher that is accessible, knowledgeable, ethical, personable, and an effective communicator while practicing the fundamental exercises to prepare their body for the best quality teaching when they can find it.

That just seems silly. The first person you meet who claims to teach Taijiquan is the only one you should get ANY information from on the subject, ever. That's the only way to get good.

For anyone to blame bad luck in finding a teacher for their own lack of personal achievement is a totally absurd thinking error.

It's a delicate edge. On the one hand you shouldn't search for a teacher, on the other hand you shouldn't settle for the teacher that is available for you.

I like what T. T. Liang said, which I think he just stole from general Chinese folk wisdom like many of his (and Bruce Lee's) aphorisms.

"If you rely entirely on books, best not to read books, if you rely entirely on teachers, best not to have teachers. "

Not every meal is fit for every palate, but we don't know until we take a taste.

Ultimately each of us, and every application and experience within the context of our personal expression of the cultivation of our art, is our teacher.

Blame and criticism for brothers on the path is just... pointless.

To me, at least. I have not achieved perfection so I feel my time is best spent minding my own progress versus deconstructing others. I suppose on a plateau of total achievement and enlightenment the exercise might seem like a more attractive diversion.

It sure seems common enough.

origami_itto wrote:It's a delicate edge. On the one hand you shouldn't search for a teacher, on the other hand you shouldn't settle for the teacher that is available for you.

This is a good link about finding a Tai Chi teacher:

https://www.facebook.com/TsemTulkuRinpo ... 1853120402

origami_itto wrote:Why do they spend time looking for a teacher that is accessible, knowledgeable, ethical, personable, and an effective communicator while practicing the fundamental exercises to prepare their body for the best quality teaching when they can find it.

This one talks about lineage vs method vs achievement in Tai Chi; I found it interesting, ymmv:

https://www.facebook.com/TsemTulkuRinpo ... 2187974493

origami_itto wrote:
Blame and criticism for brothers on the path is just... pointless.

Pointing out that laziness and too much belief in the first teacher you meet is detrimental to development is helpful to beginners and sincere practitioners. People visit discussion boards to learn shit, not to read fairytales.

Bao wrote:

origami_itto wrote:
Blame and criticism for brothers on the path is just... pointless.

Pointing out that laziness and too much belief in the first teacher you meet is detrimental to development is helpful to beginners and sincere practitioners. People visit discussion boards to learn shit, not to read fairytales.

Yes I thought my sarcasm regarding the first teacher was obvious... hmmm.

I'm just talking about this tendency to focus on the errors we see in the path and practice for others.

I take what is useful to me and leave the rest. We each have our journey and our achievement is the result of that path. No more need be said, really. No bad path to enlightenment.

The more exposure to perspective and challenge the easier it is to discern authenticity and truth.

origami_itto wrote:The more exposure to perspective and challenge, the easier it is to discern authenticity and truth.

Perspective and discernment are very subjective, because both are based upon our personal understanding of current knowledge and skills, all of which with serious training generally change substantially in these arts over time.

Robert W Smith said something like
The most important thing is to be lucky at the start
I was lucky with my first two teachers
They set the path for all my future teaching
I hate to think where I would be now if I had some of the current crop

It seems one could go deep in guitar while still being adequate on piano and bass.

Some rare people are great at many instruments and can go deep in “music”.

I, myself, have no talent in music or in taijiquan. Getting to level 101 would be a great accomplishment and would feel good, I’m sure.

everything wrote:It seems one could go deep in guitar while still being adequate on piano and bass.

Some rare people are great at many instruments and can go deep in “music”.

I, myself, have no talent in music or in taijiquan. Getting to level 101 would be a great accomplishment and would feel good, I’m sure.

Some people learn to play guitar. Some people use the guitar to study music.

Some people play covers. Some people only play covers by a particular musician. Some people write original compositions.

Martial arts... what is the product? The artist.

I always found pao very similar to fair lady works shuttles

this may or may not be helpful - as I've come to filter force dynamics through a taiji lense.
so ward off and press, basically.

with the trajectories down to up, out to in.

Beng has the dynamic of split; two parallel forces moving in opposing directions to each other.

there are no (collective)"styles"!
they are just useful (mental) constructs, at least sometimes.

training systems have lot's of the same things in them, essentially. of course they would.
beyond personal preference(s), you have, just a lot of noise.

Bao wrote:

Doc Stier wrote:Thus, relatively brief periods of time spent with every teacher, whether only a few months or a few years, just isn't enough to get the goods, even with the instruction and guidance of a great master. So unfair, I know, but it is what it is.

The answer is NOT to float from one style or teacher to another in search of 'secret teachings' or other imagined shortcuts.

There are NO SHORTCUTS!!!

Agreed.

Many public, commercial teachers, have a lot of diplomas and certifications they like to show up. They attend seminars and camps with "famous names" and use this in their marketing. What they learn over and over again are beginners exercise and "fundamentals". Despite being students of famous grandmasters, there's still no continuation in their studies and no depth in their knowledge.

Agreed! Very true indeed. To value quantity of training material more than quality of performance and application capability is a common mistake.