What is the point of silk reeling - to you - ?

[origami_itto]

I know a place where you can put that force haha

Are you coming on to me?

[Quigga]

Sure can do, I'll also get you a towel afterwards. :*

[origami_itto]

Nope to what?

As for the selective tension... tension is always global in regards to the body. You can tense up a body part more than another, relatively speaking. But as soon as you tense up anywhere, the tension in other far away places raises too. So if you tense your hand or fist for a example you have more tension in your foot and lower back.

Or you try to only tense your arm, but your diaphragm will be tense

That doesn't mean to punch with a floppy sloppy fist is always good

Pavel Tsatsouline teaches this global tension in 'The Naked Warrior', if anyone is interested. How to reach maximum consciously available tension

That's one of the reasons why people clench their teeth when lifting really heavy

Or why you squeeze the bar when squatting

Did you know that when you are driving your car down the road, whatever part of the wheel is actually touching the road is perfectly still while everything else moves around it.

[Quigga]

If thinking like that helps you, cool. People aren't cars tho

[origami_itto]

If thinking like that helps you, cool. People aren't cars tho

Geometry is geometry.

[BruceP]

結網 Jiewang is a quality of one’s body that can only be obtained after several years of daily practice in training what is called Bao Fali (explosive emission of power). This is also called Bolang Jin (crashing wave power), because you are using the lumbar to jolt the abdomen which creates a wave of flesh moving upward, which you eventually learn to time and sync up with your striking arm. Watch high speed camera (1000 fps) films of boxers punching. You can see the waves of flesh moving down the arm and the waves that travel back up through arm that are coming from the object that is punched. A Bao Fali added into the punch will have that wave traveling with the fist and eliminate any refractory wave coming back up the arm.
The precise coordination and timing that is required to do this creates a different movement modality that is then called 結網 Jiewang. It only exists within Chinese Martial Arts that use a Bao Fali. (Chen tjq, some Xingyi quan schools, Yin style Bagua, some Bajiquan, some schools of San Huang Paochui). Bao Fali is a highly guarded secret that traditionally was never to be shown to foreigners. There are still Chinese schools that swore blood oaths to never show it to anyone. Chen Taijiquan demonstrates it, but rarely does anything to teach it to foreigners. My teacher made the decision in 1996 to just teach it to everyone from every nationality because the younger generation of Chinese couldn’t care less about their traditions. He said that, who knows, one day Westerner’s might be teaching it back to the Chinese

One of the best contributions to this discussion so far. Not really on topic, but it nails down one corner of the map.

It was taught as basic fali method in my first year of training in order to gauge the progress being made in developing Six Harmonies integration. But I'd never heard it referred to as Jiewang or Bolang Jin - only "bao fali".

There is long fali and short-ish fali expressed in the method you described. The short fali uses hands matching feet, and the long fali uses elbows matching knees. The short method generally takes longer (more than a year) to develop than the long, but that may be due to the way in which the integration of the Six Harmonies are explored, trained and tested.

[D_Glenn]

BruceP,

Actually Jiewang is just a word I picked to describe a net or web-like quality that only comes from learning how to BaoFali. It’s a connected body, that actually takes effort to move in a disconnected manner. I’m using it in place of the word Chansijin which is essentially useless now with all the interpretations and being dumbed down to something that a person could learn in one afternoon.

Bolang Jin, however is a great term/ word, it comes from Xin-Yi quan, and Xingyiquan.

Here’s an article that I translated on it: http://bloguazhang.blogspot.com/2015/10/bolang-jin.html

.

[BruceP]

BruceP,

Actually Jiewang is just a word I picked to describe a net or web-like quality that only comes from learning how to BaoFali. It’s a connected body, that actually takes effort to move in a disconnected manner. I’m using it in place of the word Chansijin which is essentially useless now with all the interpretations and being dumbed down to something that a person could learn in one afternoon.

Bolang Jin, however is a great term/ word, it comes from Xin-Yi quan, and Xingyiquan.

Here’s an article that I translated on it: http://bloguazhang.blogspot.com/2015/10/bolang-jin.html

.

Great article. Thanks for that. It nails down 2 of the other corners of the map, so now we have three (power method, breath, sound). Waiting for someone to nail down the 4th. Wayne alluded to it and windwalker posted a video where the idea is present in what was being discussed and shown.

It's funny how you and I can be exactly on the same page on three points and so far apart on the 4th - or maybe we're not, and it's just because of the same things going on with 'folding' as what you commented on regards the uselessness of the word itself and it being dumbed down to 'elbow-stroke' or a table leg being folded and unfolded. Another example in this thread is the citing of tai chi classics having to do with bows and arrows...sheesh

Heh...nothing wrong with learning something in an afternoon as long as it's physically understood indelibly and simply without the danger of it being mistaken for something it isn't...or faked.

[D_Glenn]

Zhedie is the Chen Taijiquan term for Bolang Jin and Fanlang Jin. Same movement. Just a different name.

Zhe is Folding and that is just a technique that is totally unrelated to Bolang Jin.

.

[BruceP]

Ok

We're talking about two different things then.

Was never shown any techniques in the Yang or Wu I studied. My understanding of folding is that folding is the to 4th corner of 'the map' as bao fali is to Bolang Jin.

[D_Glenn]

I’m not really following what you’re saying?

To Bao Fali you must use the Bolangjin or Fanlangjin movement, aka the Zhedie movement. The Bolangjin movement is moving the lumbar from its normal position to rounded with the tailbone tucked. Fanlangjin is moving the lumbar from tailbone tucked back to its normal position. You can do consecutive strikes going back and forth with the two.

.

[Quigga]

If thinking like that helps you, cool. People aren't cars tho

Geometry is geometry.

Ok Mr. Triangle. Quite edgy. You trying to square up? Now we've come full circle. Man what a tangent.

[Quigga]

Bows and arrows are obviously a very modern addition to the classics as they didn't exist 200+++ years ago, neither as concept nor in reality. Jesus fucking Christ

[wayne hansen]

The Folding I mentioned is not just using elbow stroke
It is a whole strategy used with high level body awareness
I am not talking about the tailbone body bow thing
I learnt dragons back in Ba kua that is a whole other animal

[origami_itto]

If thinking like that helps you, cool. People aren't cars tho

Geometry is geometry.

Ok Mr. Triangle. Quite edgy. You trying to square up? Now we've come full circle. Man what a tangent.

Stand like a scale, move like a wheel, the waist is the axle.

The still hand is the tire on the road. The simplest conception of the wheel is across the shoulders to the other hand.

A wheel is an application of the simple machine called the lever

Now be a spirograph