Wu Yu Hsiang's Four Character Secret Transmission

[Giles]

That's good stuff, but again the attacking for real is the key. No staged fight or sparring can match the dynamics of an actual encounter of a random weirdo trying to hurt you on the streets. I mean luckily it's easily avoided unless you're out looking for it or getting paid to prevent it.

True. I got into a few scraps in my youth, and more than once savoured the sensation of being beaten to the ground . But for very many years since then I have shared the sad fate of many martial artists: in all the real-life situations where a person or a group was targeting me (or someone else), closing in on me etc., I've always been able to avoid, decline, discourage, de-escalate - and hence forgo the further valuable training experience of real-life violence. Bummer
So we have to create training formats that will cover various aspects. And have lots of fun doing it, or it's just paranoia.

On the other note, I understand you were talking more generally, not addressing me specifically, about not 'squaring off', that there are no fair fights. Absolutely. I'll still just say that although I practice and teach a lot of pushing hands (and post a few vids in this area), and although the basic/traditional formats of pushing hands involve longer face-to-face exchanges, I don't confuse this practice with self-defence. Neither spatially, nor in terms of speed and time. Does anyone here? But it's still a great and useful practice that can feed into fighting as one skillset. Just by the way, I was at a 'Randrory' seminar last year and both Rory and various other LEO and security guys taking part thought that my tai chi-based stuff was pretty decent, or indeed sometimes startling. Which was a nice feedback for tai chi itself, I think.

[everything]

just wrong

sure up to you guys. that is my read for nearly everyone on RSF (the individual is right and everyone else here is wrong) hahaha so imho trying an exercise > endless writing (despite the fact that many of you are great with writing and have language affinity).

[everything]

fights

all assumptions are pretty much hogwash when someone with road rage just shoots you over here in the good ol' U.S. of A.

this is one reason I say if you're a normal person to learn CPR, not cardiac surgery. the amount of "emergency prep" you think you want is up to you. some people on here still have a middle school fantasy they are going to have an after-school "fight" ("fist" only, nobody shooting you with their concealed weapon). this kind of danger is not the main (statistical) danger in life (or you've had many, many, many things go wrong or have incredibly bad luck/karma).

[origami_itto]

His response, seemingly, was that if at least two people undertake beforehand on this site to practice a certain exercise, he will deign to provide a description of it. This is quite funny, and I'll leave it at that.

There's this sort of expectation at times I think, maybe a desire, I dunno, to be "THAT GUY" of such transcendental skill in all things that the lay scrubs they encounter should throw down everything they know and kow tow to receive the super secret movement or instruction that will unlock the ultimate fist power to become a peerless boxer.

Okay and maybe that's true if somebody can really paralyze with a touch or whatever and we monkey brains are just so impressed by the might that we gather under their banner and praise their virtue to the heavens so maybe we can get that power from them and become the one with their foot in the boot.

I'm really trying to have a positive opinion of humans but it's getting harder every day. I think NGE are the closest to figuring that part out at least.

I have, traditionally, tended to rub some people the wrong way. Just being me, curious, inquisitive, a bit oblivious to social clues, stand too close in a lunch line and wind up getting three dudes attacking me out of nowhere. People looking for a random victim in the halls and jumping me because I didn't look like a threat, whatever.

Eventually you learn a bit about it. But that's also where security work comes in as a chance to explore these dynamics in a socially acceptable way with some knowledge and agency in your toolkit.

And, of course, meetups like the Tampa Bay Martial Arts Group Push Hands Retreat are a great way to get some lab time in.

I disagree about push-hands though. I believe it is the creamy center of effective self defense. If you can make contact and take their balance, 90% of the fight is over. Their brains won't let them think about anything else until they aren't falling, so you just keep them falling until they stop wanting to fight, you knock them out, or you get the restraints on.

But the mindset is completely different than what is cultivated through most sports fighting disciplines. Even among CMA enthusisasts. I saw one the other day post "It isn't a fight unless somebody gets hit in the face" regarding a kyokushin style match.

In a nutshell, refuse the fight, accept ownership, dispose of waste responsibly.

I'm rambling.

just wrong

sure up to you guys. that is my read for nearly everyone on RSF (the individual is right and everyone else here is wrong) hahaha so imho trying an exercise > endless writing (despite the fact that many of you are great with writing and have language affinity).

I do want to film my jibengong/base workout and share it for comment. It's assembled from everything I've learned so far and is most of what I do as far as conditioning goes. FEELS extremely potent, but nothing in it is pulled directly from any teacher's exercises. Just some well-worn exercises and selected form pieces done in specific ways to address each part of the body systematically for maximum effect.

My neck is still a problem, though, I haven't had the gumption to see the ortho about it yet, but pretty sure I've got something nasty going on in one of the cervical vertebra from some trauma or another over the years.

Rambling again. Point being, I know I don't have the ONE PIECE, I don't believe the ONE PIECE exists. A systematic approach to cultivation is what's needed, and that requires identifying what is being cultivated and doing what is necesarry to cultivate it.
Part of that is realizing that it isn't just ONE PIECE, it's cultivating a symphony of growth that, like a growing tree, can allow access to higher and higher elevation with time and proper care. Realizing I can only see what is in my line of sight, and that perhaps there's more visible past the horizon once I get a little further up the trunk.

Or returning to the symphony, maybe I've got one violin, but I need two more to get a proper chord sounding.

I am and am always willing to share what I'm allowed to share with anyone who is interested in comparing notes and getting as much as we can out of these practices. I don't need your money, your obedience, or even your agreement, just have some manners and the understanding that there is a slight possibility you are not Yang Lu Chan incarnate deigning to slum it amongst the mortals. (Again that's just a general statement, not an accusation to anybody except maybe Bruce)

In turn I will be rude and foul and ill tempered but maybe apologize later and at least hope made you laugh with a stretch goal of making you think.

And now I gotta go earn my blood money from Empire.

[GrahamB]

Hober Mallow.... is that you?

[everything]

that is how I feel about ALL OF YOU, not one of you in particular, lolol. everybody posts their complete bullshit explanation of fascia or mma (gave up on ima it seems) or some such bullshit and claims they "figured it out" and most of it is so ridiculous. at the risk of seeming like another THAT GUY, most people here just haven't encountered anything "interesting" or "internal" (yet). not that i'm the one who can teach it or do it. i'm just randomly lucky to have encountered it. if i explain it, it just sounds crazy. that's how it is. if you can do some stupid judo throw (though cool), that's not it. yet you start articulating it as if you "discovered" "it". personally i think maybe 1-2 here actually have it "figured out" but it's incredibly difficult for us to know that from a video or words.

which is why (whether you are annoyed by any specific individuals here or not) i like this idea of go try this or that exercise and report back (yeah yeah in writing which still sucks but it's exercise+writing)

[GrahamB]

"which is why (whether you are annoyed by any specific individuals here or not) i like this idea of go try this or that exercise and report back (yeah yeah in writing which still sucks but it's exercise+writing)"

But why do you nominate other people to go and do this work for you and report back? If you want to crawl up Bruce's ass, why not go there yourself instead of trying to get other people to do your dirty work?

[origami_itto]

most people here just haven't encountered anything "interesting" or "internal" (yet). not that i'm the one who can teach it or do it.

I have yet to see two people agree on what "internal" even means.

Useless term, honestly. Like you can see it in a photograph?

Some movement, sure... maybe? Not convinced.

Arm up, can be empty, full of tension, or full of emptiness. Picture can't show you that. Somebody's poorly worded and ill conceived (myself included) subjective description of it can't show you that.

We can be gracious and understand that we don't have perfect understanding and our medium doesn't allow perfect communication, and thereby strive towards common understanding, OR we can just assume that everybody else is a fucking idiot that just needs to listen to us.

There's so many idiots out there, but not many of them take the time and effort to learn and practice traditional chinese martial arts. That at least gives me motivation enough to keep coming back and trying to have the conversations.

What I've got are some pieces that are working pretty well to advance me towards my goals and I'm begrudgingly willing to share those because in my heart of heart I know this system is worth more than Tai Bo and Sweatin to the Oldies combined and by giving up this valuable intellectual property I will be forever damning myself to a life of wage slavery but SO BE IT, I could maybe make em better.

Graham, all I'm gonna say is "it pays to be obvious, especially when you have a reputation for subtlety"

[everything]

I’m willing to try any exercise anyone thinks will be fun/helpful.

Figure you guys would as well.

Esp since nobody can agree in writing.

“You’re all jerks” is what I agree with hahaha

If you don’t like Bruce let’s do your exercise

[origami_itto]

I’m willing to try any exercise anyone thinks will be fun/helpful.

Figure you guys would as well.

Esp since nobody can agree in writing.

“You’re all jerks” is what I agree with hahaha

If you don’t like Bruce let’s do your exercise

Okay, I'll film something to demonstrate.

And I want to be clear about the fact that I'm perfectly willing to be cool with Bruce and everybody else here despite a lack of perfect manners but I'm really gonna need him to walk some shit back before I consider being any more civil. You can tell him that for me if you see him.

[everything]

I have no idea what your beef is and don’t care. If some of you guys think specific people are jerks, that’s up to you.

I agree that you/we all are jerks though. Maybe it’s just the way we write our arguments IDK.

But I like talking with you jerks for some reason.

[windwalker]

most people here just haven't encountered anything "interesting" or "internal" (yet). not that i'm the one who can teach it or do it.

My own posting sharing my "encounters" with those who fall under the term of "internal"
recognized and used from the culture within the culture it originated from.


Yesterday had a student of one of the local teachers question me on my method vs the method his teacher was explaining and using.
My Chinese next to none the student an English speaker...

Many here "Taiwan" practice the 37 step most focused on the frame...While using the same verbiage to explain what they do feeling it is the same, it's not.

The subject of many arguments in many cases their understanding becomes the point of contention rather then a point of exploration among the locals.....

My way of dealing with this is to allow them to feel the work directly contrasting what they do, with the method I use...
For example,,,

One might ask them to move a person using their method...and then feel ones own method noting the differences...depending on the level the person doing the demo, differences can be quite distinct....

Which I make a point of maintaining they are "different" not correct, right, or the only way something can be done....

What does it looks like, it looks like the same things shown in the demos often questioned here

I use things written in Chinese in attempting to help them to understand it...Even doing this while the differences are acknowledged the why, how is often not..

The ones who can do the same things using the same method ie "internal" ,have found we all agree on the same things.

I've had older people who trained under one of the more famous teachers here lesser known in the west, comment on my practice noting that they felt while the outer shape is different we used the same processes inside....through a translator we talked using the same verbiage, meaning the same things, commenting on some of the other practices some of the groups do in area..noting the differences...

[windwalker]

Regarding push hands

IMO not really a good method as a practice for internal work...
until a certain point is reached..

The practice here a little different
from some of the clips posted....different focus...geared for the local competitions
Using their method, self-defense aspects should be very apparent.

Do agree it can be a good method for contrasting different methods or approaches
provided one has the skill set and level to do so. Good way to find out if one does or not..

for those testing

[GrahamB]

I’m willing to try any exercise anyone thinks will be fun/helpful.

Figure you guys would as well.

Esp since nobody can agree in writing.

“You’re all jerks” is what I agree with hahaha

If you don’t like Bruce let’s do your exercise

OK, I'll write you a detailed description of my exercises. The first is based off the "commencement" opening movement of the Tai Chi form.

I'm assuming you are sitting on a chair at a table, with your laptop open in front of you. I want you to follow the following steps EXACTLY as described:

1. Stand up. Focus on your breathing and sink your Qi to your dantien. Take 3 breaths. In and out. Nice and slow.

2. Circle your arms up and grasp the lid of your laptop firmly with both hands on the In Breath.

Still with me? Good...

Now...

3. On the OUT breath.... slam the laptop lid shut. Not too firmly, but with just enough pressure to close it.

4. Relax and smile. Feel the tension leaving your body.

Then...

5. Go outside and do some actual Tai Chi practice.

(Obviously, instructions may vary if you are on a smartphone, tablet or desktop computer, but I'm sure you can figure it out. You're a clever boy.)

[Doc Stier]

Dammit, Graham! That will be quite enough for now. March straight to your room, Mister, and don't come back out until you're called. LoL