Xiao Kai Men (Small Opening Gate Palm) - Ba Gua

[gerard]

Is this Yin Fu set a neigong or an application one, or both?

I was there when this video was filmed:

https://youtu.be/JYL2dsHO_wA?si=3TvGjjv2nHut1KnQ

He Jinghan, Taipei 2005


Mike Martello's version which I believe he also learnt it in Taiwan:


https://youtu.be/M6zKXUChm-E?si=8TRltPJZKgE6vyIR


I wonder why other styles like Cheng or Liang don't include it in their curriculum.


They have 64 Palms/Hands but borrowed from Liu Dekuan's. Very application based zero neigong though.


I'm very keen to learn XKM. If there is a full instructional video please post it here.

[wayne hansen]

So good to see Mike
Just imagine what he would be like today
Nice set

[Bob]

Mike was a really good guy - although we ran into each other from a distance while he was with Master Su Yu Zhang, I got to know him much better via personal correspondence after he left Master Su and was with the 8 Step Praying Mantis Master, where he really seemed to blossom regarding his internal development - never expressed any regrets over the path that led him there.

Regarding your question: Both - its training mode can be neigong if done properly and you can break open applications.

Linear xiao kai men can also be done in a circle too

Two person xiao kai men both linear & circle shows application - when on the circle when you close you can hold the wrapping closure for a number of relaxed breaths and when you open you can the posture for a number of relaxed breaths and then proceed walking the circle - the 1st five postures on the circle build a sequential chaining which culminates in the integrated 6th posture which is the xiao kai men form you see in the Mike's linear version but on the circle

The first posture in the clip below is the first change and then he goes directly to the 6th posture xiao kai men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYQOLWeS30Y

GM Liu Yun Qiao shows movements from bagua xiao kai men and ying shou, two basic training elements of the bagua system he learned from Gong Bao Tien, a student of Yin Fu. Typically these movements are practiced linearly, but they can also be practiced in a circular fashion. See also www.adamhsusf.com



Lots of little nuggets in this relatively simple looking form - also you can end the session with a 3 position/posture zhan zhuang - was told it should feel like you are taking a warm shower as you hold the zhan zhuang posture statically in the postures

Most of the linear forms can also be done in a circle (Liu Yunqiao's line) - and circle with posts

[GrahamB]

Both performances look great.

[Bao]

I wonder why other styles like Cheng or Liang don't include it in their curriculum.

Yin Fu was the student spending most time with Dong Haichuan. They traveled around together for 7 (or was it 9?) years as tax collectors. Some say that the system Fu learned was much more complete than Dong's other student. The Yin stylists say that Fu learned all 8 animals but Cheng Tinghua and other students only learned one animal. Cheng style is based on the Dragon (and combined with Chinese wrestling). Others say that the main difference is that Fu had a Shaolin background, so he combined what Dong taught him with his Shaolin. Xiao Kai Men is basically a Shaolin set. But OTOH, Yin Bagua lineages differ a lot in what and how their stuff are taught. Some Yin schools don't have this form either.

[GrahamB]

10 years in Mongolia with Yin Fu.

I ain't saying he a gold digger, but Yin Fu ain't messing with no broke... broke.

[gerard]

Mike was a really good guy - although we ran into each other from a distance while he was with Master Su Yu Zhang, I got to know him much better via personal correspondence after he left Master Su and was with the 8 Step Praying Mantis Master, where he really seemed to blossom regarding his internal development - never expressed any regrets over the path that led him there.

About Master Su Yu Zhang. Here's a piece of CMA history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XMIQrvinM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFle3ms8TbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imOPzsc95LA

Taiwan 1964

One of the YT comments state that this video is actually of a trip where Master Kanei Uechi of Uechi Ryu Karate went on an exploration to find the roots of his art. He is seen sitting in the back behind the table to the right.

Btw, where is Su Yu Zhang performing in those videos exactly?

Regarding your question: Both - its training mode can be neigong if done properly and you can break open applications.

Great. I'll explore this, got plenty of free time available. No problem with picking it up on my own.

Linear xiao kai men can also be done in a circle too

Yes I have seen HJH performing in an old 80s VHS video that was floating around YT for quite a while but unfortunately not anymore.

Lots of little nuggets in this relatively simple looking formo

Definitively. Very fine and simple but this is all in the surface.

[gerard]

10 years in Mongolia with Yin Fu.

It makes perfect sense. Plenty of time to learn an art deeply.

[Bob]

Gerad:

I initially learned this material in era of no youtube, virtually no Chinese language availability, and a time when most students were interested in praying mantis (many either owned bars and/or were bouncers) and baji power development.

A quasi-metaphorical explanation of xiao kai men goes something like this:

1) the twisting and untwisting (holding the posture before the palm change a yin/yang orientation) produces friction (fire) that heats the water in the kidneys to produce steam (water),

2) the circling and and and the actual 6th posture i.e. xiao kai men disperses the steam (qi) throughout the body (kan and li),

3) zhan zhuang distributes the steam (qi) throughout the body in an equalizing manner

Also "Eating the Sun" nei gong in place was important too for just about everything - I posted somewhere here and the one that GM Liu shows on youtube is slightly different than the way I learned it:

Very simple, nothing overly fancy or complex - was told that GM Liu once said people focus too much on qi and its meaning - However, I saw the bagua notes and they indeed could be a bit complex when tied to the Yi Jing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCVkdrclCXc



Not selling anything (In retirement LOL) here but an old dvd (its an honest attempt) we put together can illustrate a lot of the body work

https://www.plumpub.com/sales/dvd/dvdco ... ayinfu.htm

New! #24291 Xiao Kai Men (The Small Open Door)

The first thing is that this DVD was originally aVHS tape. The quality suffers from this earlier incarnation and lack of menus. That said, here is another core form of the Gong BaoTian branch of the Yin Fu family of Bagua. This form, which had only eight key movements, is an excellent introduction to Bagua structure. It is comprised of a series of four animals each with two representative movements. We have Dragon, Bear, Snake and Swallow. Once learned it can be performed in a variety of ways including short line, long line, partnered and around the circle. In this DVD Tony Yang also demonstrates an excellent method where this simple form can be expanded into Palm Changes on the circle. He also shows applications of the individual moves. I use Kai Men in my teaching and consider it a valuable form not because it walks a circle be because it teaches the student to twist in proper Bagua fashion. It is a foundational method of training that for some branches mark their first real Bagua form. Robert Figler's narration and pacing clearly present the material.

Also: Unlike the original VHS there is included a very dodgy but interesting section of old films from the 1970' of WuTan two partner practice and some of Liu Yun Chiao himself playing Elk Horn knives.

[gerard]

Sure that DVD would be very helpful but I don't have one, so I'll stick to the YT alternative. In any case kua and hip work takes most of my training right now with only a little bit of circle walking every day. From what I know the Yin Fu>Gong Baotian style is the only one that places emphasis on it, which IMO is just as important as circle walking. It's baffling the other styles aren't bothered about it and in our modern day and age even more so!

Your explanation of the XKM makes a lot of sense.

[Bob]

Just wanted to provide as much info as I remember - lots of good stuff out there and good luck in your training!

[edededed]

Both Liu Yunqiao and Gong Baozhai (He Jinghan's teacher) learned from Gong Baotian, but their systems are quite different (although some flavor is similar).

Have any of you found what (if any) appears to be the equivalent of Xiaokaimen or Yingshou in Gong Baozhai's system?
(Perhaps liangyi is the equivalent of xiaokaimen? Just a guess though.)

[gerard]

Thanks Bob, likewise.

edededed, no I haven't found anything but I have the feeling HJH is like an off-shoot of Gong Baozhai's line, so he basically has created his own entire system based on from what I have seen in his extensive video collection as he clearly focused on grounding and joint opening work, mainly in the entire waist area.

[twocircles13]

Mike was a really good guy - although we ran into each other from a distance while he was with Master Su Yu Zhang, I got to know him much better via personal correspondence after he left Master Su and was with the 8 Step Praying Mantis Master, where he really seemed to blossom regarding his internal development - never expressed any regrets over the path that led him there.

Regarding your question: Both - its training mode can be neigong if done properly and you can break open applications.

Linear xiao kai men can also be done in a circle too

Two person xiao kai men both linear & circle shows application - when on the circle when you close you can hold the wrapping closure for a number of relaxed breaths and when you open you can the posture for a number of relaxed breaths and then proceed walking the circle - the 1st five postures on the circle build a sequential chaining which culminates in the integrated 6th posture which is the xiao kai men form you see in the Mike's linear version but on the circle

The first posture in the clip below is the first change and then he goes directly to the 6th posture xiao kai men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYQOLWeS30Y

GM Liu Yun Qiao shows movements from bagua xiao kai men and ying shou, two basic training elements of the bagua system he learned from Gong Bao Tien, a student of Yin Fu. Typically these movements are practiced linearly, but they can also be practiced in a circular fashion. See also http://www.adamhsusf.com



Lots of little nuggets in this relatively simple looking form - also you can end the session with a 3 position/posture zhan zhuang - was told it should feel like you are taking a warm shower as you hold the zhan zhuang posture statically in the postures

Most of the linear forms can also be done in a circle (Liu Yunqiao's line) - and circle with posts

I learned the Xiao Kai Men, and separately, we learned circle walking in Wutan group. We had just started learning the variations of the Xiao Kai Men incorporating circle walking when our group separated to the four corners of the Earth. I had not seen this video before. I loved that sequence.

[twocircles13]

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