Beyond Xing Yi 5 elements

[edededed]

Not sure what you mean by "overhand" and "spiral punch." Are these in longfist?

Overhand - downward hook punch.
Spiral punch - start with hook punch, end with straight punch.

Hmm - I guess the first one is "caichui" (e.g. in taijiquan). Second one not so sure.

My feeling is that xingyiquan chose specialization, while systems like longfist chose variety instead.
Xingyi spends most time on 5 fists, but more variety is still left in the 12 animals and other forms.

Overhand punch: something similar is in one of the bear forms (usually seen in Che style, but others sometimes also have it)
Spiral punch: again not sure, but maybe in some variations of horse form

I think it is okay to add it if you want to!

[johnwang]

Hmm - I guess the first one is "caichui" (e.g. in taijiquan). Second one not so sure.

The overhand exists in Gon Li Quan "3 rings catch the moon".

[johnwang]

Not directly related here, but after Dave Pickens explained belt cracking to me, I bought a belt and have been cracking it while I do my elements.

Belt can be used to train the "1 arm principle".

[origami_itto]

Not directly related here, but after Dave Pickens explained belt cracking to me, I bought a belt and have been cracking it while I do my elements.

Belt can be used to train the "1 arm principle".


an arm
The dotted line represents an arm, and the left hand is connected to the shoulder and back to the right hand, which is called a whip.
When the left hand stretches to the left, the dotted line on the right will shorten accordingly.
When the right hand stretches to the right, the dotted line on the left will shorten accordingly.
Because the left and right arms are connected, the force of the withdrawal of the right fist is also used to punch with the left hand.

Need to get with google about the text in that one, but the picture seems to be what I was talking about the other day, the connection between the arms across the back that bruce said did not exist.

The right hand continues to be withdrawn, and the left hand continues to move forward.
The right hand retracts the waist and the left hand moves forward
After punching with the right hand, place the left hand at the waist.
Retract your right hand backward and move your left hand forward.
After punching with the left hand, switch to punching with the right hand, and practice with both hands in turn.

Okay So I've been folding it in half and then holding it in front of me, snapping it to CRACK on each element. This seems a little different, more like what I do with elastic bands.

[wayne hansen]

Yes it’s not what I was taught as belt cracking at the Taiwan Police Academy in 1975

[johnwang]

Yes it’s not what I was taught as belt cracking at the Taiwan Police Academy in 1975

- The long fist belt training is to develop 1 arm principle.
- The SC belt training is to develop 2 opposite forces.

[edededed]

Hmm - I guess the first one is "caichui" (e.g. in taijiquan). Second one not so sure.

The overhand exists in Gon Li Quan "3 rings catch the moon".

Looks like a common mantis technique (forget name) - sort of like a diagonal hammer fist? Cannot tell the fist orientation from the video though.

[johnwang]

Looks like a common mantis technique (forget name) - sort of like a diagonal hammer fist? Cannot tell the fist orientation from the video though.

1. Overhand can be seen at 0.30 - 0.35 the 3 rings catch the moon 三缳套月.

- The 1st circular punch is vertical back fist.
- The 2nd circular punch is overhand.
- The 3rd circular punch is diagonal back fist (similar to XingYi Hen Quan).

2. Spiral punch can be seen at 0.49.

[edededed]

Looks like a common mantis technique (forget name) - sort of like a diagonal hammer fist? Cannot tell the fist orientation from the video though.

1. Overhand can be seen at 0.30 - 0.35 the 3 rings catch the moon 三缳套月.

- The 1st circular punch is vertical back fist.
- The 2nd circular punch is overhand.
- The 3rd circular punch is diagonal back fist (similar to XingYi Hen Quan).

2. Spiral punch can be seen at 0.49.

Ah - now I think I got it, thank you!

I guess it is a matter of preferences of techniques and ranges by art.
Longfist generally likes long-range, mantis likes mid-range, etc.

- Overhand: In longfist, tongbei, bagua
- Spiral punch: In longfist, bagua, xingyi (rarely)

Xingyi, mantis has similar techniques to overhand, but more compact so looks different I guess.

I guess that many styles teach many techniques, but often just a handful of them are focused on/practiced.
Others may be kind of just a relic in forms, etc.

[johnwang]

I guess that many styles teach many techniques, ...

It doesn't make sense to talk about this CMA style has these techniques and that CMA style has those techniques. We should look at how many techniques there are and how to train those technique.

If we have the following tools in our toolbox, we should have no problem in combat. We should not care about which tool came from which MA style.

toolbox:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, spiral punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Knee - upward knee, horizontal knee, 45 degree knee, flying knee, ...
4. Elbow - horizontal elbow, upward elbow, downward elbow, forward elbow, backward elbow, ...
5. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
6. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...
7. Footwork - forward step, backward step, side step, wheeling step, circle walking, circle running, long distance advance, long distance retreat, ...
8. Ground game - full mount, side mount, arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...
9. Short weapon - dagger, double edges sword, single edge knife, Miao Diao, ...
10. Long weapon - staff, pole, spear, Guan Dao, ...
11. Throwing weapon - bow and arrow, throwing dart, throwing knife, throwing rock, ...
12. Firearm - pistol, riffle, machine gun, RPG, grenade throwing, ...

[edededed]

I agree that it's good to add more to our "toolboxes" - plus, it is fun!

I think that many styles have smaller "toolboxes" due to suitability - i.e. some techniques just don't mesh well with their chosen strategies.
In this case we may need to adapt them to adopt them.

Some techniques are parts of "toolboxes" (styles); others are just individual techniques...

[BruceP]

Belt can be used to train the "1 arm principle".

Yes

Compressing or 'stacking' the shoulders into/through the torso. Some boxers use it in their power-jab. Lots of kickboxers and MMAers apply the principle in spinning back-fist/elbow, etc. It's used in jacketed wrestling for single gripping and switching grips. In Shuai Chiao, 'hit them with their own jacket'.

Way back when I trained Shuai Chiao:



The gimp tied a lie to something I wrote in their attempt to conflate "1 arm principle" with tjq's arm-bows and peng - completely different ideas/body-methods.

[origami_itto]

You're so cool.