the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Metal - use strike to hurt opponent's punching arm and kicking leg.
Wood - use long range kick/punch to attack.
Water - spin your body when respond to your opponent's attack.
Fire - use quick footwork to move around fast.
Earth - move in like a tank with strong defense.

I don't understand why the Xing Yi system does not include:

- hook punch.
- overhand.
- back fist.
- hammer fist.
- spiral punch.
- ...

Is it because 5 is the magic number? Anything that's more than 5 cannot be supported by the 5 elements theory?

Also, why Xing Yi 5 elements only address punch? Should Xing Yi 5 elements also address kick as well?

- Pi Quan can be used to counter Beng Quan. Inside crescent kick can be used to counter front kick.
- Pi Quan can easily change into Zuan Quan. Hook kick can easily change into roundhouse kick.
- ...

What's your opinion on this?

It does include all the things you mention

In a way, yes, 5 is the magic number. While the Confucian scholars didn't invent the 5 phases, they really played a bit part in popularising them and embedding them in Chinese culture.

Zhu Xi in particular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhu_Xi

However, the five phases are always a bit of a fudge of a theory in my experience, and never quite fit reality. They can be an interesting way for a beginner to get a handle on a subject, but at some point you're better of looking at the thing itself, not the map of the thing.

some or perhaps even most（not me :））are spearheaded into that XYQ is all about the spear, especially the 5 element fists, so no room for any karate like stuff.

however with long time practice of the five elements based on correct santi/sancai practice variations and possibilities start to emerge, the 12 animal shapes are another base where the possibilities emerge..

there are the 5 elements in tongbeiquan too and within that practice the possibilities and overlaps comes quite quick to ones realisation.

as i mentioned karate in previous post, there are the five major blocks, eventually when realised contain much more that just a block.

The way I was taught is 5 types of movement
Metal top to bottom
Water bottom to top
Wood straight thru
Fire diagonal
Earth horizontal

An ax kick would be metal
A hook earth
And so it goes it dosent just handle hsing I attacks but any attack that follows those
5 modes of movement
There are no others

well yes, the 6 directions and the possibilities therein/of

what has been said, plus, there's also 12 animals to consider, which show you what the elements are good for

The elements show what the elements are good for
The animals are about further development and refinement of the already drilled
The animals further develop the practitioners strengths and work on his weak areas
It is not necessary to learn all 12 unless you are the one to pass then on

wayne hansen wrote:It is not necessary to learn all 12 unless you are the one to pass then on

I've heard similar statements from others. Personally I never cared about the animals. I only learned a few and those I learned I hardly ever practiced. When I studied XY I focused only on Santishi and the five element fists.

Nothing wrong with that

I like the Xing Yi dragon form. It has kick and punch at the same time followed with another hand strike.

johnwang wrote:I like the Xing Yi dragon form. It has kick and punch at the same time followed with another hand strike.

It's the only one I practice regularly for cardio and leg strength. But mine is a little more active, we jump from the lady's horse up and land back in the lady's horse with the other feet. One idea is developing that springiness in your legs, but also, theoretically you're pulling them down as you go down and then punching up when you come back up.

wouldn't elements in combination lead to "all things". so for example overhand ... can we see that as heng "energy" and pi "energy" (some outside in, ending in downward-ish strike)? or "zuan" and "pi"? also, there isn't an "overhand" motion with the spear?

origami_itto wrote:It's the only one I practice regularly for cardio and leg strength.

XY dragon also exist in long fist too (without the kick).