Teacher Profile

[origami_itto]

I was in Austin for a workshop with Alex Dong last weekend and got the OK to post a little write up about his curriculum and the changes he's made to how he's bringing new students in.
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Teacher Profile: Master “Alex” Da De Dong

I recently had the privilege of spending a weekend in Austin, TX with my Sifu, Master “Alex” Da De Dong, training and talking about many things, but mostly Dong Family Taijiquan. I was able to clear up a lot of missing or muddled information and get a better understanding of his curriculum.

Alex is the oldest great grandson of Dong Ying Jie practicing and teaching Taijiquan, the most senior of the 4th generation within the family.

Having been raised in both China and Hawaii, he is firmly grounded in the traditional and more modern perspective. He understands that westerners aren’t brought up with the same sacrosanct respect for authority and elders and forgives us for being a little looser with the protocols. He still maintains a tight ship with no room for nonsense during class time.

The result is a learning environment that feels safe and comfortable and is conducive to a high-fidelity transmission.

Read the rest with pictures and video at https://atomictaichi.com/2023/12/10/tea ... a-de-dong/

[ParadoxTeapot]

When highlighting the curriculum, could you have listed out the Tuishou curriculum as well?

Examples of what I mean: Dan Tuishou, Da Lu Tuishou, Ding Bu Tuishou, Hou Bu Tuishou, etc…

[origami_itto]

When highlighting the curriculum, could you have listed out the Tuishou curriculum as well?

Examples of what I mean: Dan Tuishou, Da Lu Tuishou, Ding Bu Tuishou, Hou Bu Tuishou, etc…

Excellent point, we haven't really broached the subject in terms of structured curriculum. So far he's just presented exercises and drills appropriate for the particular audience and given me direct pointers. Dan and Shuang, static. I don't know anybody in our cluster of students really ready for a Da Lu, even.

An interesting difference from the Cheng Man Ching progression is that he teaches the flat single hand circle, then a high circle with the elbow leading first, above the shoulders, then the low deflection circle.

I keep saying he needs to write another book because I've already got all the old ones. Maybe he'll do one on Push Hands training routines.

[ParadoxTeapot]

It’s interesting to see what pace different schools make their students go to finish learning the choreography of the forms.

The quickest I have heard of is students finishing the form in a matter of weeks. The longest I have heard of is Hong Junsheng’s requirement for his students to spend 8 years on just the first form (Yilu) before they can move on to the second form (Erlu).

I think it’s a matter of priority. Do they prioritize depth over breadth or breadth over depth?

Breadth over depth seems to be the best approach for keeping a lot of people happy because they get to feel that sense of accomplishment of finishing the form earlier on. The tradeoff is that their form is at a very basic and shallow level. It keeps them happy, but when the students leave the school after thinking they “finished” learning it, it doesn’t do well to promote quality.

Depth over breadth seems to promote quality, but it may not be satisfying for students to spend a long time under the “incomplete” status.

Another notable difference across schools is whether Tuishou and/or applications are done in parallel with learning the form or done after learning the form.

I am personally in favor of the parallel approach because while learning the choreography, the knowledge of the applications (even if we suck at them or can’t apply them) enriches the “intent” of the movements in the form. A simple but real example is when practitioners do a sequence while looking south, but the applications assumes the opponent is located north. They end up just giving their back to their opponent while gazing in the opposite direction from the opponent. So the "intent" isn't right.

[origami_itto]

There's a link at the end of my post there to the falling leaves kung fu article about Alex. I am pretty sure in that one he goes into depth about how important he feels push hands is to inform your practice.

[wayne hansen]

Sounds like one more step in the watering down of real teaching
As soon as the teaching is made to suit the student and the student not made to fit the art there is only one outcome
If he travels once a month to teach the entire world how many times and how often is he returning to each place
Balancing the form right and left shows a lack of real balance
There is a reason why we don’t have a steering wheel in the middle of the car

[origami_itto]

Thanks for reading, Wayne. Your perspective is always appreciated.

[ParadoxTeapot]

Balancing the form right and left shows a lack of real balance
There is a reason why we don’t have a steering wheel in the middle of the car

The analogy of the steering wheel being in the middle of the car would make more sense if it’s related to practicing the form in the middle of the stance. Doing so would mean no weighted leg (Yang) and no unweighted leg (Yin).

Wouldn’t a better analogy be like trying to learn to write with both your dominant and non-dominant hand?

And isn’t that something Xingyiquan practitioners do? When they practice their Five Element Fists, don’t they alternate on each side of the body? Are they considered unbalanced?

Or am I misunderstanding something regarding "movements are balanced on both sides like the Beijing competition forms to develop the body evenly"

[everything]

hmm on this tangent, the one sidedness comes from assumptions and old battlefields, right?

most people are right handed

your bow/arrow, sword, spear, etc. are right-hand oriented

your empty hand method and form are right-hand oriented

they assume an (1:1 if we want to make another bad assumption) opponent whose method is right-hand oriented

etc. etc. etc.

these seem like outdated or just bad assumptions now (depending on what your assumptions are about "fights" you want / do not want to do)

it also makes left-handedness questions interesting in that earlier "battle" context

[origami_itto]

Most of the movements are done on left and right side, yes.

The way most old school teachers would have you learn pretty much every posture would be to drill it left and right. Then you would string them together into a form for ease of remembering to practice everything and practice moving the energy in a continuous fashion.

Taiji folks these days prefer to just do the forms *shrug*.

No magic in a sequence. Just different ways to use your body. Though there's something to be said for paying attention to the orbits and watches when laying out a sequence.

A lot of what people say about things isn't much more than superstition.

[origami_itto]

hmm on this tangent, the one sidedness comes from assumptions and old battlefields, right?

most people are right handed

your bow/arrow, sword, spear, etc. are right-hand oriented

your empty hand method and form are right-hand oriented

they assume an (1:1 if we want to make another bad assumption) opponent whose method is right-hand oriented

etc. etc. etc.

these seem like outdated or just bad assumptions now (depending on what your assumptions are about "fights" you want / do not want to do)

it also makes left-handedness questions interesting in that earlier "battle" context

If you want to draw inferences...

Yang taiji has most postures with the right foot forward, aka a southpaw boxing stance or more orthodox grappling stance...

[everything]

I always assumed it had to do with that long list of (once good, now bad) assumptions and precedents.

IMA is already so hard to do, that's the last thing I'd be worried about in actual practice. just think it's interesting in an idle chit chat, trivial pursuit sort of way.

the neigong aspects that sound like superstitions do feel a little different to me (things like which hand goes over which hand), but I don't have "enough qi" to say too much or confirm/deny anything, subjectively.

[everything]

back on topic, great write up, he sounds like a good teacher and good guy

[origami_itto]

back on topic, great write up, he sounds like a good teacher and good guy

Thanks.
I want to be clear that im not trying to speak for him or with his authority. All musing and editorializing is my own

[wayne hansen]

Let me put it another way
We’re the last 3 generations of his family wrong practicing it right lead
Don’t move the steering wheel but move all your doorknobs
No matter what leg you have forward the balance is above
The legs are only the wheels to get you to the work
This is a big debate in FMA
If you have an hour to practice what percentage do you give to each hand
Changes like this are just window dressing
It may keep students with you longer but then you must ask why are you teaching
Even more why teach the easily bored
A race to the bottom my friends and we are almost there