It's Fascia-nating

[Bao]

What you're missing is that it isn't something that you use in isolation, it's like an added ingredient that ties things together. It's relevant in how it permeates and affects the functioning of the musculature.

Don't even think of it as separate, think of it like the crust on the bread, kinda.

But this is exactly what I have been trying to say is the mistake the fascia-fanatics do. I understand it isn't something that you use in isolation. (I have said that fascia can only follow the movements of the body, as of the muscles and organs) THEY DON'T. If you say "USE FASCIA", you assume it can be used in isolation. You give the impression that it can, and if you teach or demonstrate things, you will either lead people into confusion... or be laughed at by those who understand your ignorance.

[origami_itto]

What you're missing is that it isn't something that you use in isolation, it's like an added ingredient that ties things together. It's relevant in how it permeates and affects the functioning of the musculature.

Don't even think of it as separate, think of it like the crust on the bread, kinda.

But this is exactly what I have been trying to say is the mistake the fascia-fanatics do. I understand it isn't something that you use in isolation. (I have said that fascia can only follow the movements of the body, as of the muscles and organs) THEY DON'T. If you say "USE FASCIA", you assume it can be used in isolation. You give the impression that it can, and if you teach or demonstrate things, you will either lead people into confusion... or be laughed at by those who understand your ignorance.

That's why we engage in conversation, so we're not stuck with such simplistic headlines as the final extent of our understanding. I know it's hard to fathom, but we can actually learn from each other by seeking the truth instead of domination. If and where I am wrong, please correct me.

So much effort put into trying to disqualify each other, when we could get much further just trying to advance common understanding.

You are starting from a position where you don't even understand what I am talking about, responding instead to the presumed assumption a theoretical third party might draw from a statement, instead of looking to find where we have common understanding and increasing our knowledge from that base.

You are putting your bias ahead of your reason here.

[windwalker]

Nice "conversation"

My interest finding what some talked about long ago "jīnmó" talked about today known in the west as "fascia"
In China, the conversation was different.

some might find the following interesting. Not really a POV I use or understand it from.



"Relaxing any one tension member in a six strut expanded octahedron will elicit a lever action."

The Need for Levers with Floating Fulcrums

The fascia is thus more than just another layer of compressive wrapping. When the equivalent of lateral bands triangulate the complex mesh of the fascia, a condition of pre-stress is formed which will cause the bones on opposite sides of a joint to separate and create a gap that is not completely supported by cartilage or joint capsules.

The fascial sheath under lateral constriction and direct loading becomes more rigid and acts as an exterior compression stent or brace surrounding the joint. Release the compression force which supplies the pre-stress and the joint immediately becomes fluid and recovers its range of motion and degrees of freedom.

This becomes a tensile solution to a compression problem. When any oblique wrappings contract and shorten they also somewhat exert this lateral banding force which shortens the tissue and carries the bones of the joint apart from each other.

It may seem counterintuitive that tensile tissues can act in unison to create a compression structure but that is what the geometry indicates

[Bao]

So much effort put into trying to disqualify each other, when we could get much further just trying to advance common understanding.

You are starting from a position where you don't even understand what I am talking about, responding instead to the presumed assumption a theoretical third party might draw from a statement, instead of looking to find where we have common understanding and increasing our knowledge from that base.

You are putting your bias ahead of your reason here.

I understand what you are talking about, it's you who refuse to understand what I have been trying to say, my standpoint.

Right from the start, and in earlier post you referred to, I was objecting to how people in the internal martial arts use the word "fascia" in teaching and in demonstrations, while you are trying to lecture me about what fascia is.

You can speak about Fascia and try to explain what you want. Just leave me out of the conversation if you are not interested in what I was saying.

[wayne hansen]

So you are saying it is trained by just doing correct form

So why even mention it

[Trick]

Fascia - could it be said it’s kind of a border, a walled border ?
Seemingly related to the word “fasces”, the bundle of rods with an axe blade pointing out, a symbol used by law-enforcers, government institutions and extreme political ideologies, a symbol of supreme power. Of course i can’t believe anything such as supreme power and similar is what the fascia intoxicated taiji-players are hoping for, right ?

“Fascinating” - also seem to be etymologically related to “fascia” as the OP playfully points out in the header.
“Fascinate” - to charm, bewitch , put out a spell. In olden times associated with sorcery, for example as magic charms of phallic shapes.
Fascinate - https://www.etymonline.com/word/fascinate


Anyway, as was written in this thread - “ if someone claiming to be a teacher mention ‘fascia’(in a teaching way)more than two times, put on your coat and leave “ - probably a good advice.

[windwalker]

Fascia - could it be said it’s kind of a border, a walled border ?
Seemingly related to the word “fasces”, the bundle of rods with an axe blade pointing out, a symbol used by law-enforcers, government institutions and extreme political ideologies, a symbol of supreme power. Of course i can’t believe anything such as supreme power and similar is what the fascia intoxicated taiji-players are hoping for, right ?

“Fascinating” - also seem to be etymologically related to “fascia” as the OP playfully points out in the header.
“Fascinate” - to charm, bewitch , put out a spell. In olden times associated with sorcery, for example as magic charms of phallic shapes.
Fascinate - https://www.etymonline.com/word/fascinate


Anyway, as was written in this thread - “ if someone claiming to be a teacher mention ‘fascia’(in a teaching way)more than two times, put on your coat and leave “ - probably a good advice.

taiji uses a definition of what force is , what it's derived from, wondering if you're familiar with it ?
What about those that mention "Qi" ?

[origami_itto]

why even mention it

I know learning is painful for some people, but some of us like knowledge for its own sake. Research also shows that accurately visualizing the anatomy involved in athletic movements makes the training more effective.

lecture about fascia

naw man, just trying to help this board find something worth talking about

taiji uses a definition of what force is , what it's derived from, wondering if you're familiar with it ?

Ch'i travels in the membranes, bones, sinews, and blood vessels; strength issues from the blood, flesh, skin, and bones. Therefore, those with great brute force have external strength in their skin and bones, or physical form. Those with great ch'i have internal strength in their sinews and blood vessels, or physical image.

Circulating the ch'i in the sinews and blood vessels and using strength in the skin and bones are very different.

[wayne hansen]

Learning isn’t painful it’s a joy
Listening to drivel is something else

[Bao]

Learning isn’t painful it’s a joy
Listening to drivel is something else

Exactly.

I know learning is painful for some people, but some of us like knowledge for its own sake. Research also shows that accurately visualizing the anatomy involved in athletic movements makes the training more

naw man, just trying to help this board find something worth talking about

Listening to drivel from a whole lot of "popular teachers" and "masters" is what is painful, learning and studying is not. I've actually studied fascia a whole lot, enough to know what it can do and what it can't do. That is what I do, when I speak about something, regardless if it's about Tai Chi or politics, I have always studied the subject a lot, so I know what I am talking about and know how to support what I write with facts and sources.

Again, you can write, teach and lecture how much you want. I am sure many find it interesting and rewarding. Just keep me out of the discussion, pls refrain from addressing me.

You think fascia is a useful concept in IMA, I think it's not. So let's just agree to disagree and get it over with. Then you can continue enlightening people without interruptions. I am giving you a favor.

[origami_itto]

Fine, won't mention you. Take care.