It's Fascia-nating

[Giles]

..." how it can be used in training..."
You can not use it in training, you train It undirectly for removing all >internal blockades<,
this gives you uninterrupted internal connection, which allows you to use technique as it was designed.

Very nicely expressed in Wiesiek-idiom
Plus it's likely part of the general health-promoting effects of Tai Chi, when the art is trained properly. Not only for motor functions but also for metabolism and general organ function.

Maybe a comparison to jogging/running is useful. Jogging will usually improve your breathing, causing you to breathe more deeply and increase lung capacity. But when you go running you don't usually focus specifically on your lung capacity - you simply run, you aim to move in a supple way while pushing yourself a little. The better breathing is a good side effect. When you train Tai Chi properly, putting the classical principles into practice as well as you can, it will have the good side effect of freeing up your fascia. Maybe you can start to perceive this more directly, which is nice feedback that you're on the right track, but it will probably happen by itself.

[wayne hansen]

So we just train exactly as we did before Facia became the new buzz word
The same goes for core

[Giles]

Yes, I would agree. But it can be a useful type of feedback if you're open to feeling it.

[Bao]

So we can all agree that what is said about fascia at these points in these clips below, is just bullshit, and everything similar about fascia is bullshit as well. And that these two teachers and everyone else talking similar stuff about fascia are bullshitters. Good. Nice to sort that out.
https://youtu.be/4meTX7-BaUo?si=YR2V9k_gXoi0Ilhc&t=19
https://youtu.be/INU0z6i6A2s?si=3vLhhWs_Z3ViIe9b&t=1294

when you go running you don't usually focus specifically on your lung capacity - you simply run, you aim to move in a supple way while pushing yourself a little. The better breathing is a good side effect.

The opposite is also true: If you "free" your lungs, learning how breath deep and keep relaxed by IMA practice, you will run better. IME.
Just meant as a side-note.

When you train Tai Chi properly, putting the classical principles into practice as well as you can, it will have the good side effect of freeing up your fascia.

Yes, it's called "correct practice", not "using fascia".

[windwalker]

bullshit, really

In china among teachers and students I've met they did mention "fascia" expressed in Chinese. 筋膜

Focus was different then what some have mentioned here, ie for usage developing a method based on a unique type of power generation
hence the distinction between inner and outer power.. Understanding how the 3 internals are harmonized with the 3 externals.

A teacher might have to have knowledge of this in order to address a problem some students may
have, in developing the coordination needed for developing the 3 externals.
In gen. students don't really need direct knowledge of what they'er doing to achieve certain results.


They do need "correct training" meant to develop correct skill required for "that" practice

For those not interested in "that practice" it might indeed be "bullshit"

when teachers who use this, express what they feel they'er doing in "their" practice....
in public for those seeking a different or deeper method / understanding..

[Bao]

bullshit, really

100% yes. Really.

when teachers who use this, express what they feel they'er doing in "their" practice....

No they don't. They use terms to either confuse their students and spectators or just to look good. Terms they don't understand, which makes them look all much more silly.

It's just for the show. Like a magician on stage making a whole show out of a simple card switch. Just like in a magic show, what these "fascia gurus" show are mechanics that are quite simple, but the watcher will think something else has been done.

Even if the mechanics are simple, it still doesn’t mean that it doesn’t take skill to perform it. The professional magicians spend a lot of time perfectioning their techniques.

So that IMA teachers are bullshitters doesn’t mean they don’t have skill. The different is that the magician is honest about the show and admits that it's a trick.

[windwalker]

bullshit, really

100% yes. Really.

when teachers who use this, express what they feel they'er doing in "their" practice....

No they don't. They use terms to either confuse their students and spectators or just to look good. Terms they don't understand, which makes them look all much more silly.

your opinion, experience...

It's just for the show. Like a magician on stage making a whole show out of a simple card switch. Just like in a magic show, what these "fascia gurus" show are mechanics that are quite simple, but the watcher will think something else has been done.

Even if the mechanics are simple, it still doesn’t mean that it doesn’t take skill to perform it. The professional magicians spend a lot of time perfectioning their techniques.

So that IMA teachers are bullshitters doesn’t mean they don’t have skill.
The different is that the magician is honest about the show and admits that it's a trick.

Attributing motive to something that other's do...

My experience is different. People I've known, mentioned fascia, in Chinese, as part of what was being affected among other things by the training..
explaining things colloquial to the culture, expressed in the generation of their time...

Knitted together in skill sets they demoed and practiced.

[wayne hansen]

Yes Bao they are both total bullshit

[windwalker]

Yes Bao they are both total bullshit

What’s bullshit are those talking about other peoples work without posting any of their own,
care to step up?

[origami_itto]

So we just train exactly as we did before Facia became the new buzz word
The same goes for core

Does your training involve visualization of any of the anatomy you are using? Moving awareness and energy with your mind as you move your body with your muscles?

[Bao]

My experience is different. People I've known, mentioned fascia,

...

Knitted together in skill sets they demoed and practiced.

What people talk about is not always what they do. Talk and action do not always match.

And sometimes people have a better understanding of "doing" than the ability to verbalize what they do.

I learned a long time ago to never listen to what a practitioner or teacher says. The action, the doing, speaks for itself.
Often you learn more and better if you use other senses than the ears.

[Bao]

Attributing motive to something that other's do...

What’s bullshit are those talking about other peoples work without posting any of their own,
care to step up?

Funny, while talking about "attributing motive"... and showing yourself judgmental, "attributing motives".

[wiesiek]

..."So we just train exactly as we did before ..."
mmm, yes
>fascia training regime < is included in all systems - name qigong directly address it,
but
you know it , of c., Wayne, so what`s your point exactly?
anyway,
in my own qigong research/quest, I found, that 14 meridians medical qigong is most advanced in the field of >fascia training< .
You work directly witch accupoints and qi,
`cause facia is able to accumulate different energetic potentials/loads/qi etc.,
name fascia training can be quite legit.

[Bao]

in my own qigong research/quest, I found, that 14 meridians medical qigong is most advanced in the field of >fascia training< .t.

What fascia??? Exactly which fascia located where in the body do you mean?

[suckinlhbf]

Giles,

Just want to pick your mind from your professional knowledge on the following two scenarios if you don't mind.
1. The person can move freely and casually from one posture to the next. I would think either the person can relax the whole body inside out or he swings casually without connection.
2. The person finds himself stuck and has to take a lot of effort to move from one posture to the next. On this, he could have his bones, tendon, membrane (fascia???) ... aligned and locked up so his movements are restricted.