The Heart and Spine are Important

[ThomasK]

Getting it or not aside, I just find it of little value and circle jerky if we all go 'This is the way.' 'You know if you know.'.

No productive discussion to be had, that way.

[wayne hansen]

I’m afraid the circle jerk is not in my orbit

[ThomasK]

You don't have the circle jerk in your microcosmic orbit? Damn.

'Self improvement is masturbation.'

[GrahamB]

If one insists on being pedantic then they must bear the onus of clear communication.

Of course the 6 harmonies are one - they are breaking down the action of opening and closing the mind/body in harmony into 6 different aspects. 'Whole body is one fist" is a common saying in internal martial arts. That's what it means - opening and closing the whole body in harmony, as one, like opening and closing a fist. Just saying 'the 6 are 1' on its own without explanation isn't helpful to anybody. Unless you just want to be obscure so people have to pander to your greatness by asking you questions and engaging with you. That gets boring very quickly for other people who can see what you're doing.

This podcast on the same subject is worth a listen:

https://zencastr.com/z/WmOGF-P_

[origami_itto]

If one insists on being pedantic then they must bear the onus of clear communication.

'Self improvement is masturbation.'

That one too!

Side Note: Does anybody remember when we added these smilies in? When did we start pretending to be a family friendly establishment? Also... more Smilies please.

[BruceP]

If one insists on being pedantic then they must bear the onus of clear communication.

Of course the 6 harmonies are one - they are breaking down the action of opening and closing the mind/body in harmony into 6 different aspects. 'Whole body is one fist" is a common saying in internal martial arts. That's what it means - opening and closing the whole body in harmony, as one, like opening and closing a fist. Just saying 'the 6 are 1' on its own without explanation isn't helpful to anybody. Unless you just want to be obscure so people have to pander to your greatness by asking you questions and engaging with you. That gets boring very quickly for other people who can see what you're doing.

So it's just common sense now, right? No more 'three external' and 'three internal' then...interesting

Stating that The Six Are One wasn't meant to be helpful to anybody or to elicit enquiry. It was meant, in part, to change the language and to see who co-opts the words/concept first without having an experiential understanding of HOW it is rather than WHAT it is, and how long it would take for someone to do that. Didn't take long...

At the same time, it points to the inseparability of the physical arrangement and the energy management that is unique to tjq. In that, you're wrong about what it means in your assumptions of what Derek says regards "opening and closing" and "whole body is one fist". He wasn't talking about tjq when he discussed those things.

So you scrambled around the web and found something that fits your assumptions of what the concept represents...using what Derek knows as a surrogate for what you don't. It's astonishing that you haven't blogged about that idea and outlined the method(s) used to train it as a functional aspect of tjq's boxing method.

Derek is awesome, btw. Always been a fan of his work.

I really liked Joey's comments at around 49:00 where he talks about teachers assimilating or otherwise co-opting words and terminologies that they don't have clue about. They can say the words, but have no experiential understanding of what the words connote

something about fascia:

https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php ... 03335cb761

[GrahamB]

Dude what is wrong with you?

[origami_itto]

Dude what is wrong with you?

I think he thinks that if you find better information you aren't allowed to use it. You have to stick with only what your the one teacher you met first told you about everything or you are just lost.

The part I can't figure out is how he can gauge other's understanding. That would be a pretty neat trick.

Would you care to share some methods, BP?

[BruceP]

Dude what is wrong with you?

Just using my own words to bear the onus of clear communication...without pretending to know the operation of someone else's mind in divining their motivation for posting on RSF, because that might be hinging on projection...?

[GrahamB]

The six harmonies do not belong to Taijiquan. They are older, they come from Xin Yi, but could have existed way before. Who knows. They are not unique to Taijiquan, that's simply wrong. Again.

[origami_itto]

Wellllll as much as I hate to lean towards Bruce in anything, and though I did once say exactly that they aren't in the literature, found them in the Yang 40 chapters.

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... i-fa-shuo/
人身太極解
[18] THE TAIJI-NESS OF THE HUMAN BODY

口目鼻舌神意使之六合以破六欲也此內也手足肩膝肘胯亦使六合以正六道也此外

Mouth, eye, nose, tongue, spirit, and intent make the six internal unions by which the six desires will be overcome. Hand, foot, shoulder, knee, elbow, and hip make the six external unions by which the six paths [front, back, left, right, up, down] will be straightened [i.e. moved toward efficiently].

Mouth, eyes, nose, tongue, spirit, and intention use the six harmonies to break the six desires. These are internal.
Hands, feet, shoulders, knees, elbows, and hips also use the six harmonies to rectify the six paths. These are external.

口 (kǒu) - mouth
目 (mù) - eyes
鼻 (bí) - nose
舌 (shé) - tongue
神意 (shényì) - spirit and intention
使 (shǐ) - use
之 (zhī) - the
六合 (liù hé) - six harmonies
以 (yǐ) - to
破 (pò) - break
六欲 (liù yùe) - six desires
也 (yě) - also
此 (cǐ) - this
內 (nèi) - internal
也 (yě) - also
手 (shǒu) - hands
足 (zú) - feet
肩 (jiān) - shoulders
膝 (xī) - knees
肘 (zhī) - elbows
胯 (kuà) - hips
亦 (yì) - also
使 (shǐ) - use
六合 (liù hé) - six harmonies
以 (yǐ) - to
正 (zhèng) - rectify
六道 (liù dào) - six paths
也 (yě) - also
此 (cǐ) - this
外 (wài) - external

[GrahamB]

Yes, but they were in Xin Yi first, which is where Taijiquan got them from. That's the point.

[wayne hansen]

I find most people have a very simplistic view how the 3 external principles work
They are a matrix that works on several levels
Let alone the 3 internals

[BruceP]

The six harmonies do not belong to Taijiquan. They are older, they come from Xin Yi, but could have existed way before. Who knows. They are not unique to Taijiquan, that's simply wrong. Again.

So there's no Six Harmonies in tjq? Or is there?

Re: the Six Harmonies, here's what I wrote in my reply to you on page Five referring to the concept, The Six Are One; "That idea is the cornerstone to all the rest of what I understand about putting tjq into the body." So I'm clearly talking about tjq and not Xin Yi. Please try to keep up and follow what's being said so your argument doesn't obfuscate the central point of what's being said. It's easy...

Here's what I wrote in a later reply as to what was intended by dropping the concept, The Six Are One, for the purpose of "changing the language";

"At the same time, it points to the inseparability of the physical arrangement and the energy management that is unique to tjq"

Again, I'm talking about the Six Harmonies as it pertains to tjq. Nowhere did I even imply that the Six Harmonies is the exclusive domain of tjq.

So, the way in which that cornerstone (Six Harmonies) supports putting tjq into the body is in keeping with the "physical arrangement and energy management that is unique to tjq", (thus making The Six Are One unique to the development of tjq body-method) and NOT congruent with Xin Yi because xy is xy and tjq is tjq - and, their six 'parts' are inseparable from one another as a working model for putting tjq into the body. Hence my using my own words to change the language when it come to the Six Harmonies that, The Six Are One, in dispelling the misconception that there are 'three external' and 'three internal' harmonies that are separate from each other.

I'm breaking trail into a new way of understanding the Six Harmonies away from the erroneous and misleading notion of there being 'three external' and 'three internal' harmonies in the tjq paradigm and all the erroneous and misleading jib-jab that follows that notion. But of course, that's just common knowledge now, isn't it? Or is it?

As to the whole body being a fist thing you attempted as an obfuscation of what I'm talking about, that aint how tjq works...that's how Xin Yi works

Yes, but they were in Xin Yi first, which is where Taijiquan got them from. That's the point.

No, that isn't the point we're addressing and not the one you're arguing against. You're making a different point to cover for your erroneous assumptions of what the concept, The Six Are One, represents.

[Trick]

six harmonies are the most ancien, it in the very creation of our universe, it was the reality into man was born.
its the dualities of our reality, its the most ancient knowledge of man, everyone works with it dayly from beginning to end.