the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I used to try to get out in the park at least two days a week. I was curious, as I always saw the same people. Then I started going every day for a while (before I started my full time job). I go when I can, but, what about you guys? How many days a week do you go? And for how long?

Also as a second question, how much time do you think is "best" for, shall we say -- "mastery" -- whatever that may mean? I have heard legends of people training twice a day, every day, for ten years. I don't know if i could practically do that. What is your experience?

I do various little qigong and stretching and single postures all day long while I work or avoid work, form at least twice a day one standing and qigong session.

All day I'm (trying to be) mindful and trying to use taiji jin to move things around and interact with the world, like opening my huge sliding glass door with as little touch and muscle as possible and having it click perfectly into place without bouncing or stopping short.

I'm at the park every Monday to push. We're three strong and growing. Had one of Liang De Hua's teachers stop by this week with a group of students from North Carolina.
I was laid up with my knee so I now have to go to Orlando some Sunday to return the courtesy. :|

Appledog wrote:Also as a second question, how much time do you think is "best" for, shall we say -- "mastery" -- whatever that may mean? I have heard legends of people training twice a day, every day, for ten years. I don't know if i could practically do that. What is your experience?

not a legend..

echos how my teacher trained rain or shine, summer or winter..up until his mid 90s...

My teacher was asked the question along similar lines...by some wanting to know how to attain a high level in their practice.

His reply

" come here everyday, 3 hrs in the morning, 3 in the afternoon, and you just might get "it" in 10yrs time"

Everyone laughed, they didn't ask it again



My own practice , 3 hrs in the morning, 3 in the afternoon, everyday...for as long as I was there 1-3 months at a time before returning to the US...
once back in the US normally around 2hrs a day, everyday...for the most part...the type of work I used to do got in the way at times.

The people in "Beijing" all had full. time jobs, most trained either in the morning sessions or afternoons, when ever they could...

Don't know if I would call this training, more of a life style....just what people did...as part of their normal life...

Feel the "correct" practice, coupled with consistency of time put in, over amount or effort....offers better results
of course dependent on expected out come or context this might change...ie prepping for competitions

1 to 2 hrs everyday is just part of what I do...
more of a maintenance type of training in the US,,in Taiwan or China,,,
a little different with more people to interact with...

Since I've retired, an hour (or more) of taijiquan each day, five days a week; 30 minutes on an elliptical machine and an hour of walking the dogs.

Typically, I also manage to get in 3 hours of reading every day.

I love the life I am living.

Every day…”easy” qigong, “easy” stretch, “easy” strength.

Probably not nearly enough time (def not 6 hours).

Training what, though? What aspect of 'you' are you trying to improve? If it's something physical, that's one thing. But, what about the other aspects of tcc are "you" practicing. If the goal is fighting, then how much are you training that? Afa "mastery," masters have to be told they are, because they usually say they're still learning.

Maybe, if you have a goal and are improving, then you're doing enough.

6 out of 7 days. But ideally, every day.

As for "mastery", I think that depends on the quality of practice.

Suppose Gongfu (cultivated skill over time) = Time * Hard Work

But like the vast majority of people who practices Taijiquan, there is not a lot of "hard work" for them because their practice does not physically challenge them. Growth happens when you are challenged and pushed to the limits. You don't get stronger in weightlifting by lifting 1 lbs. for 20 years.

Not all forms are equal. Some form practices are just astronomically more challenging and physically demanding than others. Some training partners will challenge you more than others in Push Hands. This may be due to skill level but also their physical size and weight can bring challenges as well.

But age can also be a factor. Maybe you're old and don't want a challenging practice. Traditionally, Taijiquan was taught to kids. If we look up when practitioners started in the family lines, the age to which they started training ranged from like 7 to 14. But if someone started at the age of 70, maybe it's not the best idea to have them go through the challenging practices that young people can afford to go through.

Whatever the heck I learned, there's always this idea of challenging yourself and pushing your limits.

This might be seen as very paradoxical because Tai Chi is often associated with simple, easy, loose, gentle, relaxing, spiritual, etc...

But, in whatever the heck I learned, the paradox demands that I "relax" while being physically challenged. Relaxation is more valuable under physical duress. Relaxing when you're already relaxed is easier because there isn't much that's challenging your skill to relax. Those guys who can control their breath while diving into arctic water is impressive because it takes a lot of skill to tame your breath while challenged by the icy waters.

And the physical challenge isn't for the sake of something cheesy like "it builds character" which is a criticism I've seen some people have. From my observation, those who went through the suffering tends to have a faster growth rate than those who takes it easy.

Steve James wrote:Training what, though? What aspect of 'you' are you trying to improve? If it's something physical, that's one thing. But, what about the other aspects of tcc are "you" practicing. If the goal is fighting, then how much are you training that? Afa "mastery," masters have to be told they are, because they usually say they're still learning.

Maybe, if you have a goal and are improving, then you're doing enough.

this is a key question. personally mainly the neigong aspect. sink qi, circulate/regulate. subjectively notice improvements. try to impact certain easily measurable markers of health (BP, labwork, etc.) seen in all those studies, and the studies that look at only the positive changes from only meditation (as opposed to tai chi as a sort of moving meditation). flexibility and strength are easy to improve and measure those improvements.

Steve James wrote:If the goal is fighting, then how much are you training that?

I find the following combo training are valuable.

1. downward block, vertical punch (XingYi Beng Quan), front toes kick.
2. side block, grab, pull, horizontal punch, front heel kick.
3. back fist, horizontal back fist, roundhouse kick.
4. upward block, horizontal punch (XingYi Pao Quan), side kick.
5. jab, hook, uppercut.
6. hook, back fist, over hand.

If you can drill these 6 combo 20 times daily, at least you can maintain your blocking skill, punching skill, and kicking skill.

In my experience, how often you train, or how much time you train daily is less relevant than what you practice and how you practice it. How does your training regimen impact your life, your internal health, your external physical fitness, your realistic potential to effectively defend and protect yourself or your loved ones?

Not all styles and methods are equal. Some produce greater skills and benefits than others do with equal time and effort.
I've always said that I would prefer to be the least competent student of the most skilled teacher in town, rather than the very best student of a mediocre teacher.

When in doubt, watch the pros and do what they're doing. Follow their instructions. Then, more practice time will usually generate awesome results, with faster returns on investment of time and effort. ymmv.

Your daily training should depend on:

- What new skill/ability that you want to develop.
- What old skill/ability that you want to maintain.

If your toolbox contain:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, spiral punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
4. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...

You will need a lot of your training time just to maintain all your effective tools in your toolbox.

If you don’t train today you might train tomorrow

Don’t train today you know
Don’t train tomorrow your teacher knows
Don’t train the next day the audience knows
Dame Margot Fontayne

For me, Martial Arts is a lifestyle; not an activity you do once a week for an hour.

So, yeah I start my day with Tai Chi sets. I don't know, my day is just better when I do. Through out my day, I do little drills here and there. I am not as intense about it, as when I was younger. But, keep moving and improving; I should be okay.