Not sure the form creator followed any logic or not

[origami_itto]

Ito if u don’t want me picking on your understanding stop saying silly shit
He asked where the kicks where not how you use them

If you don't want me embarrassing you, don't be a jerk. Have the courage to consider alternatives and explore the potential intellectually. Don't keep showing us how little bandwidth that tired old brain can manage. ;P

[wayne hansen]

Silly boy

[johnwang]

When you fight with a stick, you can

1. poke with the end - similar to jab/cross (or front kick).
2. horizontal outside in swing - similar to hook (or roundhouse kick, inside crescent kick).
3. horizontal inside out swing - similar to back fist (or hook kick, outside crescent kick).
4. vertically downward swing - similar to overhand, or hammer fist (or axe kick).
5. vertical upward swing - similar to uppercut (or chin kick).

This is pretty much just common sense. So, if a MA system doesn't have all of these (such as missing the roundhouse kick, or inside crescent kick), what do you think the reason should be?

[wayne hansen]

The roundhouse kick exists after sit back ride tiger and before swinging lotus kick
They may be DARK kicks but they are there
If you know the San shou it is full of kicks

[johnwang]

The roundhouse kick exists after sit back ride tiger and before swinging lotus kick
They may be DARK kicks but they are there
If you know the San shou it is full of kicks

Do you have any video to show that?

It exist in the praying mantis system.

[wayne hansen]

I could most likely find one
Even if I don’t it is there in both Wu and yang

[edededed]

Wayne: you're right - that move after ride tiger does look like an inside crescent kick (but not a roundhouse), now that you mention it.

Johnwang: not sure why! For example, boxing also does not have a backfist (inside-outside) or hammer fist (downward), I think.

[wayne hansen]

Yes I was taught that move like the leg kicks in MMA
If he pulls his leg back you spin around 360 then hit him high with a lotus kick
That was back in 73 when our school was entering the same tournament Dockerty won

[Steve James]

For example, boxing also does not have a backfist (inside-outside) or hammer fist (downward),

Rules Why not ask why tcc doesn't have biting.

Some fun and some skill

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hgU2CBydAzc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UK0fnPnWliQ[/youtube]

[johnwang]

For example, boxing also does not have a backfist (inside-outside) or hammer fist (downward),

Can't speak for non-CMA, but for CMA, I like it to be as complete as possible. The outside crescent kick, and inside crescent kick come in pair. Just like the hook punch and back fist, uppercut and overhand, ... also come in pair.

The "cloud hands" that you move arms from inside out. The pair should be to move your arm from outside in. What can that move be in Taiji?

Is this the correct way to understand a MA system by following the basic logic?

Cha Quan #4 has "moves arms from outside in" at 0.04 - 0.06 (the opposite of the cloud hands).

[Steve James]

The "cloud hands" that you move arms from inside out. The pair should be to move your arm from outside in. What can that move be in Taiji?

Doesn't 'wave hands like clouds' work in both directions anyway? Asking whether they're in the "form" isn't the same as saying they're not in the art. For ex, the GBT sequence is done in one direction, but a practitioner should be able to do it in the opposite direction. Some teachers use the opposite side to teach. I've always wondered whether left-handed people should learn a left-sided form.

Anyway, although it's not the opposite side of wave hands, the hands in brush knee make its opposite circles. I.e., if whs is wipe off, bkts is wipe on. Btw, people often ask about the twist step in bkts. Some schools see it as a leg bite.

[johnwang]

Some teachers use the opposite side to teach.

Even if you teach the opposite side of the form, a "right leg outside crescent kick" will turn into a "left leg outside crescent kick". You will not reverse an "outside crescent kick" into an "inside crescent kick" (or reverse an uppercut into an overhand).

[edededed]

Wayne: interesting application, I'll have to mull over that one to figure it out!

John: I do get your feeling of wanting "completeness" - but I think in reality many CMA styles are also not really complete in that sense.
E.g. many CMA have a downward chop (pi), but not so many have an upward chop (liao).
Naturally different CMA have different techniques, which make it interesting, though, and we can certainly add them together.

[wayne hansen]

When I reached instructor level for Wu I was told I had to do it mirror image. Ie left style facing the class
This serves two purposes one dampening the ego
Two giving you empathy for those u r teaching
One other thing I found Asians found it easier to do if you did it mirror image
Westeners if u faced away
All except one very artistic woman
My wife is left handed and when I was teaching her the broadsword she said u know I’m left handed
I still haven’t worked out how to teach left handers

Even though u don’t do each equally there is nothing missing
You have something to handle every circumstance
I often find myself showing applications with the side I have never trained

The one thing I found hard after 40 years doing the basic broadsword exercise right handed I decided to also do it left
It was hard changing

[johnwang]

I had to do it mirror image.

I do all my drills on both sides. Sometimes I do right after left (R, L, R, L, ... 20 times). sometimes I do right side 10 times and then left side 10 times (R, R, ..., L, L, ...). I don't know which way is better.

As far as the form, When I was a beginner, I did my Lian Bu Quan in reverse as well. When I started to train drills, I don't bother to reverse my forms.

I truly believe R, L, R, L is the best way to train.