Jinlou - Tendons and Meridians and Fasica (Oh My)

[origami_itto]

Since we've been talking about tendons and meridians.

Here's some research tying them together.

Jinlou (筋絡 jīn luò) translates to tendons and meridians in English.

Jīn (筋) means tendon, sinew, or ligament.
Luò (絡) means network, channels, or meridians.
Therefore, jinlou refers to the body's network of connective tissues (tendons) that connect muscles to bones and the channels of traditional Chinese medicine (meridians) through which energy is believed to flow.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6448339/
4. Discussion
Thereby, we established a close connection of acupuncture points with structures of connective tissue. Heine has found that, in 80% of acupuncture points, a bundle of vascular nerves of soft connective tissue passes through fascia holes to the skin. The same anatomical structures were also found by Egerbacher in cattle and dogs, without specifying a percentage of the found VNBs per dissected acupuncture points [15].

By finding fascia fractions of the human extracellular matrix with a fibre run as the course of the acupuncture meridian, we suggest that the anatomical substrate of the acupuncture meridian is the fascia superficialis corporis of the human extracellular matrix as it was suggested in scientific works [16–18]. At the same time, we found that parts of muscles, tendons, and ligaments follow the meridian course (bladder meridian; large intestine meridian).

The histology showed that, between verum (acupuncture meridian) and placebo, there is no detectable difference. The fibre folding in the meridian progression could be detected macroscopically and microscopically. However, after fixation with formaldehyde 80%, the proteins of the tissue were denaturated. Therefore, further investigations on unfixed tissue samples will be performed in future projects.

In addition, we could not represent fascia of an entire acupuncture meridian. One of the reasons for this could be that, in our preparations, the dissection of tissue adhesion was not easy to perform. At the same time we found no corresponding fibre courses of the fascia superficialis corporis on the thigh and the forefoot, which would correspond to a meridian course. We therefore hypothesize that other parts of the fascia, but also tendon courses, anatomically depict the meridian course.

Our study clearly supports the view that the human body's fascia network may be the physical substrate represented by the meridians of TCM [1]. Specifically, this hypothesis is supported by our anatomical, morphological, and histological observations made in human corpses.

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5. Conclusions
We suggest that not only fascia, especially the fascia corporis externa, but also deeper parts form the anatomical substrate of acupuncture meridians. In addition, parts of muscles, tendons, and ligaments follow the meridian course. Our observations build an anatomical basis for examining TCM principles and therapies, and it supports a holistic approach to diagnosis and treatment of diverse diseases.

Since we found VNBs in just a few of the acupuncture points and as we found VNBs even without an acupuncture point, we are no longer convinced that the sole concept of the function of the acupuncture system over neural reflexes is valid.

[everything]

i wonder if "lower dantian" area or other "energy center" areas correspond to a relatively large amount of fascia, and if so / if not, how that fits their theory (if any, as they seem to talk meridians but not "sea of Qi" or "amount of Qi"). there is fascia supporting the lower intestines there --- all I really know of anatomy 101 there. not sure there is any practical meaning whatsoever (not there has to be) from this trivia. people seem comforted by this kind of finding, though.

[origami_itto]

i wonder if "lower dantian" area or other "energy center" areas correspond to a relatively large amount of fascia, and if so / if not, how that fits their theory (if any, as they seem to talk meridians but not "sea of Qi" or "amount of Qi"). there is fascia supporting the lower intestines there --- all I really know of anatomy 101 there. not sure there is any practical meaning whatsoever (not there has to be) from this trivia. people seem comforted by this kind of finding, though.

Anatomically speaking, the three dantiens align with major nerve centers.

The lower occupies the same space as the Enteric Nervous System

The middle occupies the same space as the Gastric Plexus

The upper occupies the same space as the hypothetical Third Eye (Pineal Gland?) Brain in general.

[everything]

it seems like they are saying lots of fascia is where these energetically key points are. cannot tell if they also say nerve centers. interesting, though, regardless.

[origami_itto]

Well the research is saying that they found lines of fascia and tendon that correspond to a lot of the meridians as mapped, but there were some gaps which they think are due to them damaging it as they dissect, or that it runs deeper. Sometimes the spots corresponded to nerves, sometimes it didn't.

[GrahamB]

I always think of the jinlou as the original older map of 'lines of strength' in the body, and the meridians as a later invention.

[D_Glenn]

If you’ve done qigong and can get the tangible sensation of qi to manifest in your palms and fingers.(Everyone has felt their own qi after an extremity falls asleep. The tingling needles as blood flow returns is the qi hitting your nerves.) When you have spent a couple weeks getting this sensation then you should have your fingers sensitized enough to slightly sense the qi on the skin of your arms and body. Now this most likely will not feel like anything because you have spent your whole lifetime with Wei Qi emanating from your own skin. It would be problematic and disastrous if you could. But what you want to do is look at an acupuncture chart and using one or two fingers hover (about 1cm above) over and around the area of a point. And what you will actually be able to feel is where there is a complete lack of Wei Qi. Because the Wei Qi anchors into the acupuncture points. It’s where it enters and exits. It’s almost like a tiny little whirlpool as you can feel it fading and circling around as you hone in on a point, until it’s gone and that’s where you want to needle. Acupuncturist who trained with my teacher use this to find points. They also want to hold the needle in their hand and get a strong sensation before inserting each needle. This not only gets a better effect but also increases your chances of not catching a sickness from a patient.

So I believe that Qigong came first. Then someone found all these points. Then the Jinluo was mapped out.

[GrahamB]

"The tingling needles as blood flow returns is the qi hitting your nerves."

[D_Glenn]

People on RSF and EF and supposedly practicing Internal Martial Arts for 25 odd years. I can’t believe this is still an arguable issue.

If anyone hasn’t felt their own qi then they either have not done any qigong or they don’t know how to use their Yi (Intent).
Ask yourself “Wth have I been doing all these years?”

This should happen within the first week of practicing qigong.

[Doc Stier]

"The tingling needles as blood flow returns is the qi hitting your nerves."

Hahaha! I get a tingling sensation whenever I'm close to my lovely lady, but the associated blood flow seems to be affecting body parts other than the nerves. Oh, my!

[origami_itto]

it seems like they are saying lots of fascia is where these energetically key points are. cannot tell if they also say nerve centers. interesting, though, regardless.

I can't remember where I read it, I think maybe one of Chen Man Ching's essays? Anyhow, they said that the dantien didn't exist or was underdeveloped by default and that they had not found any evidence of an anatomical structure in "regular people" but that in the area of the dantien in adepts of meditation there was a "bag like structure".

I haven't run across any other references to it than that one I can't remember.

[GrahamB]

People on RSF and EF and supposedly practicing Internal Martial Arts for 25 odd years. I can’t believe this is still an arguable issue.

If anyone hasn’t felt their own qi then they either have not done any qigong or they don’t know how to use their Yi (Intent).
Ask yourself “Wth have I been doing all these years?”

This should happen within the first week of practicing qigong.

I know right?

I was just saying the other day that our bad harvest was a punishment from God and this guy looked at me like I was insane!!? Shhhh. Next minute he'll be telling me that witches aren't real and my magic healing amulet has no power! That guy! Right?

[GrahamB]

"The tingling needles as blood flow returns is the qi hitting your nerves."

Hahaha! I get a tingling sensation whenever I'm close to my lovely lady, but the associated blood flow seems to be affecting body parts other than the nerves. Oh, my!

This confirms that you have no qi blockages

[origami_itto]

People on RSF and EF and supposedly practicing Internal Martial Arts for 25 odd years. I can’t believe this is still an arguable issue.

If anyone hasn’t felt their own qi then they either have not done any qigong or they don’t know how to use their Yi (Intent).
Ask yourself “Wth have I been doing all these years?”

This should happen within the first week of practicing qigong.

I know right?

I was just saying the other day that our bad harvest was a punishment from God and this guy looked at me like I was insane!!? Shhhh. Next minute he'll be telling me that witches aren't real and my magic healing amulet has no power! That guy! Right?

Well now you're getting silly.

Conscious control of autonomous processes is part of the dual edged sword that is quality neigong.

We can use our bodies to stimulate certain phenomena and a certain level of awareness and control achieve the same results with our mind.

Some of the practices involve sayings like saturating the body with "mind fluid" not that it is an actual fluid, but that the sensation of awareness spreading into it is like water or ink soaking into a paper towel or cloth, diffusing slowly.

But it all happens in stages, from nothing comes something, don't get attached to anything at any stage or you wind up stuck there.

Tingle fingers are like the billboard for the highway exit to navigate through town to the yard where the door is, not any sign that one has "entered". Starting to investigate the why and wherefore behind tingle fingers and mottled palm is the route to the neighborhood, IMHO.

But there's qi and then there's qi and then you have qi but have to consider qi, and none of them are really the same thing.

[GrahamB]

I'm pretty sure there's a medical explanation for pins and needles that doesn't require the qi paradigm or believing in thing that aren't real. I mean, if you want to call blood flow 'qi' then ok.... but why....