Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

[origami_itto]

I’m going to have disagree with the Sword Breaker. It is an old weapon but it had segments and functioned like a whip.

I think Wuyidizi said it best

One more detail: it's called single whip because it's a whipping motion, you do this big arc, then at the end you snap back in a small circle like you're cracking the whip. I don't know how to explain the physics of this, but I have practiced this a lot with a 30 ft long battle rope with another person holding the other end, when I snap, the waves' amplitude and frequency are different, the power a lot stronger, and the other person cannot hold on to it (he gets pulled suddenly to the opposite direction toward me at the end).

I think what he's describing is the Jiu Jie Bian or 9 section whip:

The most common of the biān is the jiǔ jié biān (九節鞭), or nine-section whip. This consists of a small, metal or wood handle (sometimes wrapped in leather or wood), solid metal sections connected by small rings (varying typically from seven to thirteen sections), and a heavy metal dart (sometimes pointed).

There is also the San Jie Bian made famous by "The 36 Chambers" aka "Shaolin Master Killer"
三 (sān) - Three
節 (jié) - Section
鞭 (biān) - Wh

Each of these is differentiated from the Tie Bian or Iron Whip by naming the number of sections.

The "Dan Bian" if we take Dan to mean single, as the Qi Ji JIang text suggests, would seem to indicate a single section or single hand as either a multi section whip or a stick/truncheon in each hand would be common.

From my familiarity with short sword work I can tell you that there are many different strokes that can be mapped onto or derived from the movement as received.

[everything]

ah i see so it's a really heavy metal short staff. was imagining something with a "hook" or something more whip-like. afraid I may have lost the plot. so cool about the legendary craftsmanship. it certainly stands to reason that some makers and the stuff they made was of much higher quality.

[origami_itto]

ah i see so it's a really heavy metal short staff. was imagining something with a "hook" or something more whip-like. afraid I may have lost the plot. so cool about the legendary craftsmanship. it certainly stands to reason that some makers and the stuff they made was of much higher quality.

Naw it's just a heavy metal stick you use to bash stuff with, like the picture Bao posted up above. Kind of like how the sabre is a heavy sword you slash and hack with, as opposed to the jian which is more for fencing and parrying and slicing and stabbing.

I feel like they did a great demonstration of the differences in approaches to conflict that each weapon dictates.

[Bhassler]

Unless your gongfu practice has already got you flying and fighting in the tree tops, then it's probably best not to use kung fu movies as a historical reference. Most cold weapons - Asian or European - were lighter than people seem to think.

• "Sword Breaker" is a popular term, but I don't know that it has any linguistic connection to historical usage. Single Whip, Iron Whip, Iron Ruler, Iron Slip, etc. are all used, but I've never seen that class of weapons called sword breakers in Chinese. Maybe others know better?
• As far as I know, historical examples are roughly the same weight as a sword of equivalent length. So you could definitely mess up a sword with one, but no more than another sword could.
• These would be great civilian weapons, being less expensive than a sword and requiring less skill to use (no need to worry about edge alignment, etc.). Also, you have more "less lethal" options with a blunt instrument than you do with a blade, and you can still use it to block/defend with. You can also do bayonet strikes at close range like in the video that Graham posted more easily than you can with a sword.
• The meaning of Dan Bian as it relates to taiji I guess would kind of depend on how you interpret it. Is it called that because your body resembles an iron whip, or because the usage is similar to how you would use a truncheon? Or is it a cultural reference?

There are different common shapes, as well, not just the popularized ones shown as sword breakers:

[origami_itto]

Unless your gongfu practice has already got you flying and fighting in the tree tops, then it's probably best not to use kung fu movies as a historical reference.

That's not what's going on here, of course, it's just an example of that sort of weapon being used. Yuen Wu Ping who choreographed the fight sequence has decades of experience with pretty much every aspect of Chinese martial arts and his sequences, while sometimes a bit fantastical, usually are at least informed by and are attempting to communicate historical aspects of the systems and weapons being demonstrated.

This article is a good overview of some of the related weapons: https://swordis.com/blog/chinese-sword-breaker/

"Sword breaker" is not a term they would use, they would say tie jian or tie bian, but to communicate the idea of the function of the weapon, it is much more like a western Sword Breaker.

This is somewhat similar to "Sabre" or "Broadsword" as a term for Dan Dao, not a literal translation, but a culturally and functionally aware translation of the significance and use of the weapon.

The meaning of Dan Bian as it relates to taiji I guess would kind of depend on how you interpret it. Is it called that because your body resembles an iron whip, or because the usage is similar to how you would use a truncheon? Or is it a cultural reference?

I think the cultural reference re: Zhao Gong Ming and his ties to Taoism are the strongest suggestion here.

This is all good stuff I'm taking into revision as the article evolves.

[wayne hansen]

I have said this before
I was shown that single whip relates to how u use your body
Up till single whip you are using push/pull energy
In single whip you are using what is called flapping energy in hsing I
It is not the final posture but how u get there from grasp sparrow
The energy is like that used in both white crane systems
This site is full of chat GPT and academic research very little direct knowledge passed down through word of mouth and hard consistant training

Lately people have been saying that I am saying I got the real stuff and you haven’t
I was lucky
What I do on here is correct what I think erroneous and try to point out there is better stuff out there
To not do so would be to steal from the art
If it offends some who flitter from style to style and teacher to teacher that is not my worry but their insecurity
As I have said I don’t write for you but to give another point of view

[origami_itto]

This site is full of chat GPT and academic research very little direct knowledge passed down through word of mouth and hard consistant training

Do you mean rumsoakedfist?

I use chatGPT as one source to assist in translating single characters, but the content of my blog is 100% my own writing communicating my own understanding from copious research and direct experience and instruction.

Up till single whip you are using push/pull energy
In single whip you are using what is called flapping energy in hsing I

This is an interesting point that is very different from any other rationale I've encountered and I'd love to get more information about your perspective with it.

To have everything going on in GST reduced to "push/pull" energy is an interesting perspective.

[Bhassler]

I have said this before
I was shown that single whip relates to how u use your body
Up till single whip you are using push/pull energy
In single whip you are using what is called flapping energy in hsing I
It is not the final posture but how u get there from grasp sparrow
The energy is like that used in both white crane systems

Do you have a video of what you mean, or at least showing the section of form? Grasp Sparrow's tail is a Yang taiji thing, and doesn't exist in Chen style, although Dan Bian certainly does.

This site is full of chat GPT and academic research very little direct knowledge passed down through word of mouth and hard consistant training

You seem to lack enough context to say if that's true, or not. All your posts seem to relate to a single, idiosyncratic derivative of Yang Style, and may or may not relate to what other people practice. You may have something great, but that doesn't make it the only great thing in the world, or make it representative of anything but itself.

[wayne hansen]

I wrote a long reply but either the phone ate it or the site did
I don’t do Chen even though I can see what I am talking about in it
I did train with CZW IN 88
Easy to show in person I don’t really film stuff anymore

[Steve James]

Well, the GBT section demonstrates the four sides (plja), the SW is the transition to the obvious four corners (zlzk) . Everything afterwards is just a variation created by applying the early stuff to something new. At least, they could be applied to anything. Pick a goody, and break it down --ok, more than to "everything is peng."

Afa SW, I agree with someone's earlier sentiment that it's not possible to restrict anything to one meaning -even if it's the one you were taught or believe. This is as fundamental as yin and yang.

[wayne hansen]

I am talking about the word whip or whip with a single hand
Yes it is just a variation is GST but with a different energy

[Trick]

bian can still mean whip as in leather-whip.

swordbreakers/mace was probably quite common on the battlefield especially when ”plate”armour was used, swords where probably quite ineffective in such settings also most swords were probably of poor quality...

[Trick]

https://swordis.com/blog/chinese-sword-breaker/

[Steve James]

Whip as a noun can be stiff, flexible, or sectioned (stiff and flexible). Imo, as a a verb, it describes a sequential and circular action as opposed to a linear one. I.e., you can use a stick like a whip, but not the other way around --unless they are combined so that the whipping action produces a linear reaction.

Afa SW, which hand are we talking about? Which type of action does it perform? Then there's the body-method, and the legs. Iow, we do several things through/to different directions.

[Doc Stier]

It may be insightful to some practitioners of the Yang, Wu and Chen styles to focus on the rear hand when performing Single Whip, like the Wu Hao and Sun styles do, envisioning the hooked hand executing a quick, flexible whipping strike with the back of the wrist, as one example, rather than always focusing on the open front hand. This creates an entirely different energy dynamic which can be very interesting.