F̷a̷j̷i̷n̷ Bao Fali in Xingyiquan

[G. Matthew Webb]

D_Glenn, has your yin-style BGZ teacher ever thought of being a subject in a motion analysis study? That would be interesting.

[wayne hansen]

The name we call this energy is Cold Shaking Energy
Referring to how a dog shakes to get dry
It is not about generating more energy but delivering short sharp blows
One of the Tien Gan exercises works specifically to produce that effect
I remember once showing a good boxer this
We were in a small office on the docks
I still have the image of him flying on to the sofa a short distance behind him
All his pockets emptied ,coins and cigarettes going everywhere
The main thing I remember was the look on his face
He was a pro boxer and ex Golden gloves
He didn’t ask for a second demo

[origami_itto]

Ah okay, that is the intentional shaking that a person shouldn’t do. As I wrote above. It’s shite. The only people I see who do that are people who can’t do Bolangjin/ use their lumbar like a bow, so they’re trying to imitate people who can.

Yeah, usually it looks to me like tension and trying to force a reaction.

A real "fajin" type movement that I'm looking for is a sudden release of stored energy, so it's very crisp and linear. If the body is relaxed then when it hits the end the force just goes right back in, averaged across the whole structure, just like it would if you hit something that resisted. At that point, there might be a wave or two of energy going back and forth but it shouldn't be hugely obvious.

The natural occurring shaking or trembling that happens after a lumbar bow springs, will add another quality to a Zhen jin strike that helps it to penetrate into an opponent, but not necessarily make them move away or be repelled, like the Dang Jin is designed to do.

I'm interested in this because of something my teacher said in class recently that seems to crystalize a line of inquiry I've had going for a few years in this subject.

Dr Tao Ping-Siang, I don't know if you know the name, a high hand associated with Cheng Man Ching lineage in New York. I've never met him but some students who have relayed to me, independently, that he says everything is in the shift from back to front in Grasp Sparrow's Tail.

I've been paying a lot of attention to the middle there, and have been using a bow stance to open up my tailbone and seat my hips properly, which has helped me to open up the lower back in Wu Ji stances.

This ties right into the whole stepping without stepping as well.

So basically, as you shift, your tailbone wants to move and that lower lumbar is going to flex and change shape, so the process of practicing Grasp Sparrow's Tail is working this Bo Lang Jin, Bo Dang Jin that you are talking about. This wasn't necessarily something I noticed before getting into Dong style.

The spinal wave is a definite thing. I don't think it looks like much but it's a perceptible feeling like, I don't know how to describe it. You ever see like a sci-fi movie with a big spiraly wave thing that moves with that spiral wave even slowly with a huge amount of power? That part happens with the "arm movements" of GST.

All of the weight shifts and turns and arm movements of the long form are training the same idea but not just isolated to the lumbar, the whole body is involved in the same way.

I've got a lot of old injuries and have to toss and turn a lot at night. I find myself setting one point with my hand or shoulder and the whole body "waves" around that point to get to the new position. It's hard to really describe. Like a highly articulated lizard tail. AN undulating "dragon body".

[origami_itto]

The name we call this energy is Cold Shaking Energy
Referring to how a dog shakes to get dry
It is not about generating more energy but delivering short sharp blows
One of the Tien Gan exercises works specifically to produce that effect
I remember once showing a good boxer this
We were in a small office on the docks
I still have the image of him flying on to the sofa a short distance behind him
All his pockets emptied ,coins and cigarettes going everywhere
The main thing I remember was the look on his face
He was a pro boxer and ex Golden gloves
He didn’t ask for a second demo

Yes I've heard it named "cold jin", so named because the suddenness and ferocity leaves their blood cold. The "look on their face" showing the shock. "Shaking" in that they are emotionally shaken more than physical.

I forget the Chinese term for it. Sometimes described as short jin, in that it's released suddenly, as opposed to long jin which is released slowly, but the names all get so messed up with the literal translations the metaphors, the westernizations.

What I find is that my movement may not be fast, but the release is sudden and surprising and they don't know what caused it, which is scary.

[D_Glenn]

G.M.W,

Here’s a video from one of my teacher’s DVDs. It’s from the dragon system of Bagua. Which is the most prevalent in the Bagua world.
It shows our Four Pillars of Dan Lian (single strike drilling). Notice that in our Standing in place/ Stationary striking that you get into the stance that feels comfortable, and then take another half step, so that your stance is really wide. It’s to stretch the inner parts of your legs, since this drilling method isn’t directly applicable, you might as well be getting some other benefits for your body.

In the second and third types of strikes you can see the movement of his spine better than in the first.



.

[ThomasK]

Nice strikes. I like the strikes to the left and right best.

You definitely notice he has 'some' skill. Some, as in a decent amount and some as in 'something'. It's something cultivated that wasn't there before.

What I find most glaring is that the palm doesn't seem to be moving very fast. I suppose the palm has to be only positioned and then the bones crash into the oppponent from the inside?

[ThomasK]

The name we call this energy is Cold Shaking Energy
Referring to how a dog shakes to get dry
It is not about generating more energy but delivering short sharp blows
One of the Tien Gan exercises works specifically to produce that effect
I remember once showing a good boxer this
We were in a small office on the docks
I still have the image of him flying on to the sofa a short distance behind him
All his pockets emptied ,coins and cigarettes going everywhere
The main thing I remember was the look on his face
He was a pro boxer and ex Golden gloves
He didn’t ask for a second demo

Wayne, I believe you.

Could be a cool way to rob someone haha. Their pockets already empty and them sitting comfortably wondering wtf happened and you only have to pick the coins up.

[GrahamB]

I don't like the idea of head shaking like that for years...

But doctors think head banging is ok... kind of... unless you're this guy..

https://nypost.com/2014/07/04/docs-to-r ... ing-is-ok/

[D_Glenn]

Here’s some video I took of myself, back around 2003. I was only filming this to help myself learn. If you really look, you can see that in some strikes the flesh gets blocked or is mistimed with the hands. When learning this, at first your goal is how many times out of 10 can I get it to work and travel out to the hand, eventually you get to 10 out of 10, then go to 20, eventually you get to 100 strikes out of 100. It’s the most frustrating thing I ever experienced. It’s like trying to learn a complex trick on a skateboard, only harder because your mind is having to figure out what’s going on inside your body. I had zero knowledge of anatomy at this time. I don’t know if knowledge of one’s internal anatomy would make it easier to learn, or more difficult.



.

[windwalker]

Here’s some video I took of myself, back around 2003. I was only filming this to help myself learn. If you really look, you can see that in some strikes the flesh gets blocked or is mistimed with the hands. When learning this, at first your goal is how many times out of 10 can I get it to work and travel out to the hand, eventually you get to 10 out of 10, then go to 20, eventually you get to 100 strikes out of 100.

It’s the most frustrating thing I ever experienced. It’s like trying to learn a complex trick on a skateboard, only harder because your mind is having to figure out what’s going on inside your body. I had zero knowledge of anatomy at this time. I don’t know if knowledge of one’s internal anatomy would make it easier to learn, or more difficult.

Kudos showing your work

Helps in the discussion , something hopefully more follow in other threads

[windwalker]

In this clip you can see he’s using the Transverse Abdominal muscles (TVA) to round the lumbar and tuck the sacrum, called the Bolangjin (Crashing Wave Power), and then immediately using the TVA to return the lumbar and sacrum to the original/ normal position, the movement called Fanlangjin (Returning Wave Power). These names come from the idea of when you are about knee deep in an ocean the Crashing Waves can knock you down and push you up onto the beach, but then you get caught in the Returning wave and get dragged back down the beach and get hit by another Crashing wave and the cycle repeats.

醍醐灌顶！庞超老师古崩拳，根节胯打 Shocked, the unique way of exerting force in Xingyi

[Trick]

An issue with this shaking energy is that it’s most probably almost to absolutely impossible to execute if actually fighting an accomplished opponent that knows how to move.
So what’s the use of it anyway ? This energy is also developable in traditional Karate, I developed it from that practice without actually knowing it until I seriously hurt a guy with just a “skin touch” punch to his midsection….during a stationary sparring drill.
So for this thing to actually be workable it must either be done like in my unfortunately situation or against someone completely unaware and just minding his own business, so if someone actually has this skill and deliberately execute it in such or if possible any situation, then there aint any value to any so called “wude”, as well as speaking/writing about it and how to develop it ain’t wude’ish.
If any actually has this “power”…then don’t try to share details on how to develop it, it ain’t a good thing..

[wayne hansen]

I see it as something used up close when your opponent moves first but you arrive before him

[origami_itto]

I'd agree there. Shoulder stroke is a good cold Jin delivery device. That's most effective starting from an inch or two away from the target.


Short range, short duration, so fast like thunder following lightning so closely you don't have time to cover your ears I think is one of the descriptions.

[D_Glenn]

If you watch high speed camera footage of boxers and people getting hit (600 fps and up) you can see how the flesh moves in waves. In a standard/ normal punch (衝擊力 Chōng​jī​lì) you can see the bones of the hand hit the object, but the wave of flesh is still up around the bicep and is moving down towards the hand. Meanwhile the object being hit causes a wave of flesh to start traveling back up through the hand and the two waves collide with each other around the forearm.

In this Bolangjin/ XiongYaoZhedie, a person generates a wave of flesh to start moving from the abdomen, fractions of seconds before the arm starts moving to punch, so that the bones and wave of flesh are traveling together, and they both land at the same time.

This becomes infused into every punch, throw or kick that you do. It transforms the way you function. It doesn’t have a specific purpose. It’s just there. You are truly moving from your root.