Internal Strength - how?

[shawnsegler]

For me it's a bunch of different factor...how much muscular strength you have, in tandem with how well you control movement with the areas of flow in your body (or as we sometimes refer to it qi powah), how well your skeletal connection is developed and how well you have trained your mind to feel your connection to the ground (or simply in accordance with gravity if you aren't on the ground) and how well you've trained your mind to concentrate and gather all of those components in harmony...and whether or not you can you can maintain and restore under duress those same qualities while in movement...I don't really count it if you are just standing and rooting...I really don't think it's an adequate test of what I would refer to as strength which I see as something dynamic in martial arts.

My 2c.

S

[Sprint]

"Posted by: kenneth_fish Posted on: May 4th, 2008, 9:23pm
They were about the diameter of a nickel, maybe a bit larger, and raised. He called them rouqiu, literally "muscle balls". He said they were concentrations of qi under the skin. Master Hu Jiemin of Lohan Shaolin had the same skills. Speaking of whom - his neigong was incredible. His body would expand and contract visibly. Once he showed me a "kip up" unlike anything I had ever seen - he lay on the ground on his back, raised his feet about six inches off the ground. A wave seemed to run through his body, and without bending his knees he was suddenly standing upright.

I used to go visit the abbot Heng Yueh at Muzhi mountain outside of Taipei - he was just over 100 years old when I met him. He was still practicing Lohan kung fu. When he moved he too seemed to expand and contract visibly - his forearm would swell to half again its normal size, and his mid forearm to his fingertips would turn quite red.


To me, this is the kind of stuff that should be considered indicative of "internal strength." Just having good body mechanics or powerful intent is not it. Otherwise, we'd be right in saying that Western Boxers have some of the best "internal strength" around. How do you get this? With Qigong/Neigong/Yoga/Meditation and other such practices

I'd take all that with a pinch of salt. Internal strength is supposed to make you a better fighter. Muscle balls, expanding contracting, gymnastics are all examples of - get this - NOT fighting. Oh and by the way Floyd Mayweather does have incredible internal strength in my opinion.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

raise the organs and bowels, keep the tissue that wraps it taught and healthy.

there are many methods. Your insides also need to be eating the right things and drinking the right things.

Nutrition and A good Method (there are many) are what is required to cultivate internal strength and fortitude.

[shawnsegler]

I think you're wrong about the gymnastic skills and expanding contracting etc..not having a relation to fighting.

There are whole lots of skill sets that have myriad levels of functionality to martial artists and every style and practitioner is going to modify that to their taste. Just because someone explores for whatever reason some of the other aspects of whatever similar skill set that's been melded into their system doesn't necessarily take away from the efficacy of said skill set when it's kept on task...except for whatever time it takes away from your practice and if you don't have other things in your life besides martial arts then maybe it's time you started...sounds kind of out of balance not to.

S- king of run on sentences

[Sprint]

I don't disagree with what you said. Actually you make a good point - one that I had not considered. But don't you think many of these stories at best only provide indirect evidence of some skill. I mean surely it is some kind of jest to say that a master could make his arms go like Popeye's. And qi balls... wtf? How does that help? There was no explanation . If I had some special skill and someone traveled half way round the world to visit me I would not demonstrate a skill that was nearly, sort of, the same as the skill in question I'd show 'em the damn skill.

[neijia_boxer]

did anyone mention breath yet. Like 6 healing breaths where you inhale to a specific organ and feel the organ expand and contract with the breath.

I learned this one from a Chinese Yang stylist in Hangzhou. you in inhale and hold it , stay relaxed as long as you can while body expands in all directions, then exhale. you will feel alot of energy when doing this. he said though you have to be celibate to get the best results. internal strength?

[SitYodTong]

Internal strength is a huge huge subject. Even if pertaining to only one style.

Take baguazhang for instance: simple explanation of bagua internal strength training is that the power comes from the hips and the back. But it really goes much deeper than that. People often mistake being able to use their hips and back (and maybe dan tien) as the only places where they put strength. But the truth is that you have to learn how to make EVERY part of your body strong to create bagua's force.
You have to make your hands strong, your shoulders strong, your upper and lower back strong, your chest strong, your neck strong, your legs, feet, toes, everything.
There are specific ways of practicing every part of your body from the bottom of your feet to the top of your head. Then as some others have mentioned, you have to make your mind strong with intent. Any good martial art, internal or external, will have similar training to achieve these goals. After you can make your whole body strong, you have to go out and test it. Even if you are strong inside your body, if you never hit anyone, how can you expect to be able to use your force?

QFMFT.

I think a simple standing practice is a great way to start. As is a real, traditional yoga practice--chi gung and pranayama/yoga are so similar in so many respects that they end up complementing each other very well. The deep internal awareness you gain from a quality yoga practice translates really well into IMA.

Chan si jin training drills also teach you the beginnings of applying power in the style of your art.

So, ideally, I would have some do post standing, yoga, and whatever chan si jin drills their repsective style might include. from there it's a matter of adding awareness and intent to the movements of their respective arts.

[Walter Joyce]

OK, I'll bite, what does "QFMFT" exactly stand for?

[DeusTrismegistus]

OK, I'll bite, what does "QFMFT" exactly stand for?

quoted for mother fecking truth

QFP

quoted for posterity

another fun one

DIAF

die in a fire

[Walter Joyce]

quoted for mother fecking truth

QFP

quoted for posterity

another fun one

DIAF

die in a fire

So is QFMT quoted for the mother fecking truth?

[meeks]

developing core strength and training the body to drive from the core, rather than simply moving the core while you move your limbs. a lot of that is accomplished from the first basic idea of 'ti gang'. some guys say 'just an energetic connection' - I say "lift it like your picking up a hundred pounds with your nuts".
and supplementary exercises that condition the body.
then start practicing applications while trying to maintain proper principles of movement based on your style.
forms should be last.

[SitYodTong]

quoted for mother fecking truth

QFP

quoted for posterity

another fun one

DIAF

die in a fire

So is QFMT quoted for the mother fecking truth?

Yes.

[mixjourneyman]

I was talking with my teacher the other day about internal power and he mentioned something that I think is worth mentioning here. He said that even though a lot of people have power in their body, they don't focus on using the arm and shoulder to their full potential.
Just an interesting thing that got me thinking of this thread.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I was talking with my teacher the other day about internal power and he mentioned something that I think is worth mentioning here. He said that even though a lot of people have power in their body, they don't focus on using the arm and shoulder to their full potential.
Just an interesting thing that got me thinking of this thread.

yes, this is true.

many people, if not most do not have proper understanding of their own body as a mechanical device and so, over time, bad habits become the way of being.

poor posture, laziness, shallow breath, a bent belly instead of a hinged hipand so on. all these things deteriorate the core of the body and ultimately the whole.

you can develop your core strength inside of half a year and I like what meeks had to say about perfecting movements, but I would say that it helps having someone who understand kenisiology letting you in on what corect structure is. Many of us don't understand that it doesn't have to hurt or wear you down to be effective and useful energy and even fewer understand that working too hard is highly counterproductive.

martial arts, in my opinion are the least useful way to develop this type of understanding and instead, teh focus should be on overall fitness and routines that work specifically to develop attributes associated with a powerful core strength, body balance and overall strength and conditioning.

for me, martial arts is martial arts and not just exercise and fitness. quite a lot of it is anaerobic and no good for say weight loss and cv development.

do your martial arts as martial arts. focus on the techniques as if using them.

but fitness and core strength can totally be developed in a pretty short timeline. I would say that on an average person, inside of 3 months is totally doable.

[Walter Joyce]

I was talking with my teacher the other day about internal power and he mentioned something that I think is worth mentioning here. He said that even though a lot of people have power in their body, they don't focus on using the arm and shoulder to their full potential.
Just an interesting thing that got me thinking of this thread.

I am curious to hear what others say, but I have gotten the impression from most everyone that has taught me IMA principles that you need to relax and soften the shoulders in order to develop good power. As I recall, the reasoning was that if you relied on the shoulder muscles it would break the chain or connections in the body and result in only arm strength and not whole body power. I have been reminded time and again to relax and drop the shoulders.

What have others been taught on this issue?