Still, I have a training issue which I think is BTDT for most here, but I'd like to ask anyway (so putting it in BTDT). Many (most?) say not to practice "how to" until that connection is built or else it could be wasted effort. There seems to be some talking around this from others that say most of those who say that never get to the good "how to". Ok, fair enough but I want to do both. Still, I can see how sparring too early hurts the internal connection by reinforcing habits counterproductive to building those good internal connections. Yet I like it and get good other benefits so want to continue.
What is the solution so I can make the most progress (as a passionate hobbyist) to get that "good jujutsu with internal"? Is it work 80% on the internal connections, 10% on drills, and 10% on sparring, as Tom mentioned in his example, so the last bit doesn't override the first bit in my nervous system? I think yes... right? Or, don't worry too much about it? Need some help not shooting myself in the foot...
Tom wrote:
Beyond the nature and level of internal skill, the real distinction here is the emphasis on (internal) body (mind) conditioning over training specific techniques (or form sequences). My own specific breakdown: solo training 80%, partner drills/work to test the solo training 10%, sparring/rolling 10%--this is in terms of total training time. Dan and his dojo colleagues will probably vary with me--for example, in availability of training partners. But that's just to give you an idea of the importance placed on solo training and testing the internal strength skills developed with that training, rather than learning form sequences or specific tit-for-tat fighting techniques.
The other distinction is the nature of the specific solo training exercises. Dan draws from a variety of sources, including Daito-ryu basic exercises and the Japanese koryu he practices. He's found some commonality with the feel of a couple of CIMA teachers he's met, and none with others. Akuzawa (Ark) also drew from his Daito-ryu (Sagawa-ha) training and working with a Japanese koryu practitioner, as well as from xingyiquan, in putting together his Aunkai system. Based on my own limited experience, both Dan's and Ark's methods resonate with work I've done in xingyi, yiquan, and even to some extent with one particular bagua circle-walking practice. Their methods are trained with specific intent to systematically build internal connections, and then tested with partner work to check on the level of conditioning and--importantly--how it holds up under pressure, when in movement.
Sounds like good basic internal martial art training, right? It isn't that other CIMA or even JMA practitioners don't have internal training methods. It's the emphasis on basic conditioning building internal connection and skill over training form sequences and learning particular fighting techniques that really impressed me. This kind of training emphasis will carry over into a wide variety of fighting styles and techniques, and improve the practitioner's performance and effectiveness there--because of the whole body/frame conditioning. Akuzawa and his students spar and engage in sanda. Dan and his students play in a wide variety of venues--MMA, BJJ, Western wrestling, aikido, and probably others. The foundation for the fighting is the solo tanren (forging) work.
Someone was talking about Tim Cartmell. Tim is (obviously) an excellent fighter, and I personally know him to be an excellent teacher as well. There is an emphasis on usage and sparring/rolling very early on in the progression of Tim's regular students at Shenwu. They also do some basic conditioning work during the classes there as well. But the emphasis during class time is on demonstration of practical application of technique and on rolling/sparring to learn to use the techniques in a live environment. Tim believes that his students should do their conditioning for the most part on their own time--they are paying him to learn to fight. It's a sensible perspective.
On his own time, Tim trains like a demon, and has developed his own personal conditioning regimen that he continues to evolve. I don't know his specific personal exercises. What I do know and have felt is that Tim does have real internal connection and internal strength skill. He's a skinny guy of medium height who is very supple, connected and fluid in movement.
What Tim teaches in his classes, seminars, books and DVDs is basic principles of angles and leverage, how-tos of throws and other practical applications (sometimes coming out of specific solo forms like a xingyi animal or Sun bagua palm change), and some simple tactical considerations. He'll share about general physical conditioning as well. But there isn't really a specific emphasis on solo training of internal connection and testing of that connection.
It's not that Tim doesn't have those qualities himself. It's just not the emphasis in what he teaches, in large part (in my opinion only) because that is not what students really know about or clamor for. They are more interested in learning to fight, in specific applications and in plenty of sparring/rolling. That's what is demanded in workshops put on by John Wang, too. People want to learn the how-to of shuai jiao technique.
The how-to of technique is not the fuel that powered the legendary effectiveness of IMA founders. It's the internal connection and skill in using those connections.
Teaching "good jujutsu" technique is not the same teaching internal connection and internal skill. It is not a put-down to say that what someone is showing/demonstrating is "good jujutsu" or "basic jujutsu technique." It is accurate, though, to say that is all they are demonstrating "how to do"--even when the demonstrator/teacher is doing those techniques with internal skill. Because it can be difficult to discern simply by watching--whether by video clip or in person--whether the demonstrator is moving with internal skill. It's much more apparent when you're the one being thrown or demonstrated on.
Teaching solo conditioning exercises that cultivate the internal strength skill is not teaching jujutsu technique. Jujutsu technique can be used to demonstrate the level of internal skill the practitioner has--but training the technique is not the same as training the internal connection.
This is not a new debate. Wang Xiangzhai's experience in stripping down CMAs to the fundamental body/mind training he regarded as essential in developing yiquan is one example. Another example comes from the observation in Tim Cartmell's and Dan Miller's book presenting Wang Jiwu's system of "neigong" exercises--that teaching neigong and power exercises was regarded as the essence of IMA systems, and traditionally followed teaching of solo form sequences and techniques, after the teacher had a chance to evaluate the student's character and diligence.
I've often heard the complaint that a student has wasted years learning intricate forms and even techniques but still can't fight. It may be that the teacher has withheld key knowledge about internal strength training--or it may be that the teacher did not know and therefore had nothing to teach. It's certainly true that sparring and rolling provide the sort of live environment in which the MA practitioner becomes accustomed to contact and learning to move and change under pressure. It's a key piece of learning to fight. But sparring and rolling alone are not going to convert your "good jujutsu" technique to good jujutsu technique done with internal skill.
Grappling in itself is excellent conditioning and a good means to explore staying connected and changing inside your body. But--unless you're Mix and can wrestle with yourself --grappling is not the systematic training of internal connection and skill in feeling and moving with those connections that can be developed through the solo training exercises and partner work to test your connection.
Are Dan's and Ark's respective training methods the only ways to train internal connection and internal strength skill? Obviously not--they are after all drawn in part from those guys' distillations of their own training in traditional MA systems. And of course there are martial artists and fighters with real internal skills who may never have heard of Dan and Ark.
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