Josealb wrote:Jon, You can upload pics in http://www.imageshack.us. Thanks in advanced for the effort.
Im interested in seeing stance training within Dai Xinyi. Im not familiar with it at all. You dont have to explain its details or how it works or anything...just a general idea of how it looks.
Craig wrote:Palmer who is your teacher? Xu Guoming?
taijiren wrote:I-mon wrote:no no he's talking about XYLH. long diao bang is basically like the picture craig showed. there are some pictures of felipe in his little walkthrough here:
http://www.emptyflower.com/xingyiquan/crushing/felipe/liuhechicken.html
I'm curious....is it standard to step directly forward without lifting the leg? Yang Fansheng teaches a version of this where the rear foot, as it's stepping forward, lifts up and extends such that the toes almost touch the leading hand. Is that a common variation?
Dai Zhi Qiang wrote:I do this slightly different, for example the rear thumb should be touching the hip and the front hand should be a little closer (sorry for being pedantic )
Jon.
I-mon wrote:Dai Zhi Qiang wrote:I do this slightly different, for example the rear thumb should be touching the hip and the front hand should be a little closer (sorry for being pedantic )
Jon.
in shanghai we'd do it so the back hand ends up behind the small of the back, palm out, and the front hand ends up palm in facing the solar plexus!
you do it WRONG!
Che Xing Yi Quan (talking about Xin Yi Dao camp), believe that "dun hou shi", etc were always in their system. Since now Xin Yi Dao is composed of Che Xing Yi Quan and also Dai Xin Yi Quan (coming from Wang Yin Hai), I would like to seek out a independent source (other Che Xing Yi Quan lines) to possibly confirm this. Also the tablet erected in 1925 is not enough hard evidence to prove that Che Yi Zhai learnt from Dai Wenxiong, more research needs to be conducted regarding this and many other things.
1. Bang Fa=shoulder striking methods (I never really seen any methods in Xing Yi Quan which train this), now I am not talking about applications, people can make up what they like from the basic movements (that's cool), but I am talking about specific training methods, forms, etc.
3. San ti shi (3 body posture) as to whom created this and why, there are many possibilities. As some of you know Dai Xin Yi Quan use "hu bu" aka Tiger stance, which is in appearance a forward weighted posture like other "gong bu", when it is fact weighted 50/50. There are a couple of techniques which use a more back weighted posture (similar to san ti shi), but are by no means emphasised. Jarek has mentioned one of the reasons why Dai favours the, bow stance over a back weighted stance, is due to dan tian rotating freely in this manner. So this brings to me the question if there is dan tian rotation in Xing Yi Quan, how is this possible in san ti shi?
For example in Dai Xin Yi Quan, we have 1. Guo Feng Bang (wind wrapping shoulder) 2. Ya Mo Bang (pressing down shoulder strike) 3. Li XIn Bang (plough shoulder) 4. Ru Lin Bang (enter the forest shoulder) 5. Wo Ho Bang (crouching Tiger).
I am not too sure with the Xin Yi Dao curriculum, but I know it varies considerably from what I do. Even in Qi Xian/Shanxi many teachers are making up more forms. My teacher has never felt the need to change anything.
Jay
beegs wrote:Che Xing Yi Quan (talking about Xin Yi Dao camp), believe that "dun hou shi", etc were always in their system. Since now Xin Yi Dao is composed of Che Xing Yi Quan and also Dai Xin Yi Quan (coming from Wang Yin Hai), I would like to seek out a independent source (other Che Xing Yi Quan lines) to possibly confirm this. Also the tablet erected in 1925 is not enough hard evidence to prove that Che Yi Zhai learnt from Dai Wenxiong, more research needs to be conducted regarding this and many other things.
I say their is no doubt che learned dai, and some say more than his teacher at that. He learhned the system, theres no question from family teachings. If people think xinyidao is this or that, they really dont know the whole deal. Our dai style is not only from wang ying hai either,. Bu taught dai methods as he was taught directly from che as well. Li Shiquan is just as imporftant as Wang Ying Hai also.
(There is no way anyone can prove something which happened many generations as fact, as Jarek has pointed out to me a couple of times, more and more research is coming to light as time passes, you can only theorise and give "your opinion" and your teacher/line.)
Why are the systems so different? Its easy, Che and Dai really arent different at its core, however Shanxi was a place where bodyguards were needed and Che modified things to make them quicker to learn and more immediate combat results, however the core of its art are retained as well.
(This is also another opinion, if you did not know Dai Wenxion was a bodyguard at one stage of their life and the Dai's being so damn rich at one stage in their life, needed those skills for real life threats.)
Li never introduced Guo to his teacher
(How can you know this?)1. Bang Fa=shoulder striking methods (I never really seen any methods in Xing Yi Quan which train this), now I am not talking about applications, people can make up what they like from the basic movements (that's cool), but I am talking about specific training methods, forms, etc.
Che style has this (would love to see some if you could share with us)3. San ti shi (3 body posture) as to whom created this and why, there are many possibilities. As some of you know Dai Xin Yi Quan use "hu bu" aka Tiger stance, which is in appearance a forward weighted posture like other "gong bu", when it is fact weighted 50/50. There are a couple of techniques which use a more back weighted posture (similar to san ti shi), but are by no means emphasised. Jarek has mentioned one of the reasons why Dai favours the, bow stance over a back weighted stance, is due to dan tian rotating freely in this manner. So this brings to me the question if there is dan tian rotation in Xing Yi Quan, how is this possible in san ti shi?
one reason for this again, is actual combat, guys who actually fought alot and against weapons and were bodyguards,research what banks were in shanxi, etc does dantien save you from a thrusting spear? No, footwork does! Can you wait years to develope dantien when you have to escort money somewhere tomorrow?
(Dai Xin Yi Quan's footwork is very vast, using hu bu is limited, there are many other footwork methods.)For example in Dai Xin Yi Quan, we have 1. Guo Feng Bang (wind wrapping shoulder) 2. Ya Mo Bang (pressing down shoulder strike) 3. Li XIn Bang (plough shoulder) 4. Ru Lin Bang (enter the forest shoulder) 5. Wo Ho Bang (crouching Tiger).
There are 2 additional methods as well (that is because you count, tang lang xing and ma xing, we don't)I am not too sure with the Xin Yi Dao curriculum, but I know it varies considerably from what I do. Even in Qi Xian/Shanxi many teachers are making up more forms. My teacher has never felt the need to change anything.
Jay
Nothing was changed. Is it possible your teacher and even his teacher also had been taught variants as most lineages have? Do you feel all Dai Kuis students were all taught the same material?
(Nope, that it is one of my drives to seek out other teachers and interview them regarding their curriculum and teaching methods.)
The major reason the arts changed in my opinion were based on the need for quick self defense as I explained, and che retained the core knowledge and studied with Dai family for a long time, just like every other art, very few maintained the harder core training, and the students that did do it, kept it in their lines, others felt satisfied with their modificatuion which produced great results.
Some people even feel that Farmer Li didnt learn much from Dai family, and thats why hebei is so different, che style differs because of Che studying directly under Dai family.
Also some feel that it was Che and Li who modified XY for the bodyguard reasoning, and thats what was taught to guo, there s many theories.
I can tell you from our families thinking, Che studied with Dai family for sure. What Bu learned from Che is also very vast, and not all students were taught the same, and just like today, can every student grasp the same material, and are every student worthy? If some guy is a bully, do you show him the same stuf as some sincere student? All arts basically change for reason of neccessity, if Qi Xian was to be invaded in 1 yr, and they needed to teach the residents to defend the village, would they teach them to squat and expand? If your fighting ten guys with bladed weapons, are you gonna go into Hu bU for every strike, to get full dantien rotation? or would you use a santi type stance and footwork to be more agile and mobile?
who knows, gettin straight answers from the source is like pullin teeth, they dont even want the attention, very conservative people.
(This is also another opinion, if you did not know Dai Wenxion was a bodyguard at one stage of their life and the Dai's being so damn rich at one stage in their life, needed those skills for real life threats.)
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