"What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

[Wanderingdragon]

I may take the time to read the entire entry at some later date and I am rude for not, it's late and cognac has been my friend tonight, but you cannot begin to explore the answer to this question without exploring the literal meaning of Tai Chi Quan.

[johnwang]

My friend asked me, "What make Chinese Chinese?" and I started looking for answers. I am glad to say that I have found them.

- They have over 5000 years culture.
- They have yellow skin, black hair, and brown eyes.
- They invented compass, gun powder, and printing,
- They are nice people.
- They are shorter than American in average.
- ...

And the next time I meet my friend, I’m going to tell him what makes Chinese Chinese.

If I say Chinese is superior than other races (such as they invented compass, gun powder, and printing), I will offend all the none Chinese who live on this planet. If I say Chinese is inferior to the other races (such as they are shorter than American in average), I will offend all the Chinese who live in this world. This is indeed a very sensitive subject. No matter what I say, someone won't be happy and that's for sure.

[Formosa Neijia]

If that was supposedly his answer to his friend's queries, then I'd suggest he go for more brevity next time. A ten-page treatise looks desperate.

Plenty of other martial arts use shen, qi, yi, etc. terminology. Nothing about that is special in regards to taiji.

I also don't share his fascination with Wei Shu-ren or Qiao. They're both skilled, no doubt, but there's a high degree of conditioning/cooperation on the part of their students. Citing them above doesn't lend credibility especially against his friend's arguments and if he used them as evidence then he'd get laughed at, as it should be.

IME the main thing that separates taijiquan from other martial arts is the reliance on and detailed training of sensitivity. I've studied lots of other martial arts, some in depth, and never seen the detailed teachings on sensitivity that taijiquan involves. But that sensitivity can't be seen.

So my answer to his friend would be yes, taijiquan came from the same stream as every other CMA and has many of the same techniques. But the context in which they are employed is different in a way that can't always be seen from the outside.

Dave C.

[GrahamB]

http://taichinotebook.wordpress.com/200 ... chi-chuan/

[Iskendar]

If you'd ask me, taijiquan is an internal (meaning with focus on relaxed connection and movement from the dantian) martial art, emphasizing song, coiling motions (silk reeling), absence of directional preference in its dantian movement (contrary to frex Dai style, which favours the vertical cycle), solid rooted stances and employing the peng-lu-ji-an cycle as basic tactical principle in all of its striking, grappling and weapons applications. Shen, yi, qi etc. is just the traditional Chinese vocabulary to describe all this. None of this is exclusive to taijiquan, but it is the combination that makes the art.
Not that anyone would ask me though, I'm nobody

[Strange]

nicely put, all.... but of course, at the end of the day the real quan is acquired through long hours of diligent and bitter-eating practice

[Bao]

Well, the article starts off good. But then it turns into a mainstream article and just repeats a lot you can read anywhere. <and I find no real answer to the original question.

I think J.W.'s view can be applied. Taijiquan has it's own history and was developed by the people who developed it. Therefore taijiquan is taijiquan and not something else.

I would say that "real" taijiquan focus more on song and tingjing than any other CMA. There is a also a structural integrity which is carefully practiced through great precision and is based on body awareness. I have met no other practitioner from any other style who has developed the same degree of sensativity. But there are people who come damn close. CMA is so rich and has such a variety of aspects that no person has enough time to develop all of it. The life span is just to short.

Of course, there is also a lot of other stuff called taijiquan, like most form practice which has no real meaning and serves no other purpose than nagging a few bucks from old, retired people...

[Daniel]

One lu, one ji.

Then I can go back to my coffee.



D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[Ba-men]

This look to be be the start of a long thread:

Dave C Wrote:.
IME the main thing that separates taijiquan from other martial arts is the reliance on and detailed training of sensitivity. I've studied lots of other martial arts, some in depth, and never seen the detailed teachings on sensitivity that taijiquan involves. But that sensitivity can't be seen.

Sensitivity. IMO This is a skill set. And other arts (if not all) rely on it too.

Tom : Shen, Yi and Qi

Shen , Yi and Qi are metaphysical principles that Taijiquan relies on. But do not other arts also employ these too? The article didn't define at all IMHO what Taijiquan is


In my Two in a half decades of practicing Taijquan in my opinion what makes the art different from other arts is its strategy to be passive aggressive while acting like a rubber ball. Xingyiquan has its vertical circular buzz saw strategy and Bagua has its spinning whirlwind.

Taijiquan: The Circular or Ball strategy

Everyone no matter who he is after they have attacked has to recharge to reinstates another attack. (Especially if there was no resolution/outcome to the attack...e.g. once a combination has failed to hit, the aggressor must change his approach or get nowhere. In that dead space caused by the opponent's re-setting to attack Taijiquan passive aggressiveness relishes. To sit on the edge of an opponent's contact range getting pushed and battered around like a rubber ball...waiting. There is no ground to hold, there is no ego...you accept your opponents ego and let him push you. pressure you, "he can attempt to lead you.... but you are a ball that spins, bounces, rolls any direction. The ball/circular strategy is all about who is left standing in the end...not who dropped who and how long it took.

This is what makes Taijiquan different than most arts. It takes sensitivity, it take the employment of Shen Yi and Qi This is not a skill set that all arts employ... but a strategy of conduct that few arts have. This strategy takes investment in loss to understand, it also takes letting go of your ego to use.

Strange Rote:
nicely put, all.... but of course, at the end of the day the real quan is acquired through long hours of diligent and bitter-eating practice

I agree....Now to turn full circle...Taijiquan is at the end of the day, just like any other art. One has to learn to strike hard and move fast...

[Wanderingdragon]

For us simpletons who don't want to read a lot Taiji "Grand Ultimate" from which all things are created, we should start there now I'll go back to my coffee... ohhh my head ... better put a little brandy in it.

[everything]

Yeah, back to coffee. Good idea.

It is soft, internal, circular. It has throws, locks, strikes. It prefers following, neutralizing, then counterattacking. So what. Various aspects are similar to other arts. This one has certain characteristics that are more prevalent and certain ones that are less prevalent. So what.

I read a good rant recently that said you (general you) ARE NOT A "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE". What is this frigging obsession with being "special".

[Daniel]

A hair of the Single Whip that bit you, huh, Dragon?


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[lazyboxer]

We can deduce what defines taijiquan through a process of elimination.

Taiji is NOT:

Standing in a horse posture with gritted teeth, bulging eyes and reddened face -
Rushing furiously towards semi-comatose and bewildered enemies screaming mysterious oriental death shouts-
Endlessly pounding at sandbags, punchbags, horsebags, windbags or old bags-
Refraining from sexual intercourse or other forms of jing leakage for not less than 15 years to foster the correct cultivation of the Immortal Pill-
Talking interminable nonsense about Internal Power to mainly youtube-educated 12 year old grandmasters-
Hiring a top Wall Street law firm to devise an unbreakable 10 year gongfu training contract thereby guaranteeing you positive cashflow until death (and possibly even beyond ...)
Having a 300 pound streetfighting gorilla as your top student to fend off the possibility of ever having to cross hands with a real challenger-
Being a learned and respected editorial consultant for Inside Kung-fu magazine-
Following your 115 year old Chinese master's guidance faithfully until your 70th birthday when you suddenly awaken to the shocking truth that you're a clueless idiot-

All of which, having been removed from consideration, leads me to conclude that Taijiquan is actually-

NOTHING!

[Daniel]

We can deduce what defines taijiquan through a process of elimination.

Taiji is NOT:

Rushing furiously towards semi-comatose and bewildered enemies screaming mysterious oriental death shouts-

Ooooh. Darn. I always liked that.

Hiring a top Wall Street law firm to devise an unbreakable 10 year gongfu training contract thereby guaranteeing you positive cashflow until death (and possibly even beyond

I wouldn´t call it that. It´s All About Helping People and Getting Better Karma. Phrasing it like that sounds so...sordid.

Having a 300 pound streetfighting gorilla as your top student to fend off the possibility of ever having to cross hands with a real challenger-

I have to. I can´t let him go. He´ll beat me up.

NOTHING!

Ah. Very wise. You have arrived at True Wuji, Lazyb. Do you have a pdf of your full-colour brochure where I can check out what courses your centre offers?




D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[Interloper]

My first reaction at seeing this demo was, “Hurray! An old man defeating a younger, bigger and stronger opponent, just like in the old stories!”

My second reaction was, “Woah, how did he do that?

Sounds to me like Mr. Yeo was the wrong person to ask "what makes taijichuan, taijichuan." He doesnt' know enough taiji to discern the answer.