"What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Michael Babin on Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:15 pm

My old cat defines taiji better than I have been able to do it after 33 years of trying ... She waits and sits and "does nothing" most of the day [if you don't include the pacing and whining at mealtime] and yet she can move suddenly and effortlessly when she has to and can still leap to the top of a tabletop without looking as if she was winding-up to do so. Though small she can suddenly seem twice her size and very scary if she sees another cat through the livingroom window.

Most animals seem to have the secret of whole body movement without trying to acquire it and have a boneless, supple strength that we could all envy. Maybe that's why many chinese styles looked to various animal and birds for "secrets" and even in taiji, you can find references to tigers, horses, birds, etc.

Of course, a modern human being has difficulty imitating the natural movement of other species and it might not always be as useful as some think; but we also seem to have lost touch with our own "original nature", to use a more spiritual metaphor.

Oh, and a cat doesn't waste time writing about how it's approach to 'catness' is superior to that of the cat next door, much less to that of a dog or a horse or a rooster ...
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Daniel on Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:19 pm

Haoran (haoren? :) ) thanks, I have actually been looking for that saying for quite some time. Brilliant.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Strange on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:02 pm

be careful what you say, you'll have someone teaching Cat Style Taichi in no time
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Michael Babin on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: be careful what you say, you'll have someone teaching Cat Style Taichi in no time

I can see the most deadly technique in their arsenal already... "Savage Pussy Catches the Crabs"
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Strange on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:26 pm

roflmao
this one is teh d34dL3H!!
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby johnrieber on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:48 pm

jou tsung hwa really pushed that whole cat-thing as being a key metaphor for explaining good taiji behavior to humans/primates.

absolute relaxation with full intention and ability to full-body issue at any moment. sensitive but ruthless choice of angles and application of force.

cat jumping up onto a table without moving. cat waiting by a mousehole, looking asleep but being anything but.

only time i ever heard him diss anyone was, 'his push-hands--ah, like a dog.'

dog chases squirrels but rarely catches 'em. :)
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby GrahamB on Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:44 pm

ors wrote:
GrahamB wrote:
ors wrote:What a nice picture!

What the hell is that?


Hey! I'm not just giving that information out you know - I had to sit through 5 and a half series of Lost to find out what that wheel is - ;D


Oh! It is from Lost! Now it is explain everything... :)


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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby ors on Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:42 am

;D ;D ;D

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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Strange on Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:13 am

johnrieber wrote:only time i ever heard him diss anyone was, 'his push-hands--ah, like a dog.'


lol. i'm a cat person... but for all good intentions i thinks its pushing it a bit too far. of course all of you understand that i am not practicing taichi and i cannot understand it. but from where i'm standing it seems to attract ppl who are more theoretically inclined; thats all good... to a point; beyond which the amount of expounded theory vastly outweighs the actual practice. then i think it is fair for one to ask is there a point in all this? afterall, it IS a form of physical skill and ability we are after, no?

i for one would hate to see the ACTUAL SKILL of taichi get crowded out by theory cos its practitioners spend too much time talking theory and treatise. i would hate to see one day when someone ask why there is no more taichi, the ans is the students ask too many questions no time to practice; and the teacher also spend too much time to ans no time for practice.

i remember when Chen XiaoWang came to singapore; reporters asked him as compared to your forebears what do you think of your skill level? Master Chen replied out of 5, i think i am 2 and a half

just saying, cheers, S.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby johnrieber on Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:12 am

i hear you about the whole theory-versus-reality thing, strange.

but the thing about pushing or crossing hands with mister jou was, he really did make you feel like a stupid dog who was barking up the wrong tree. :)

t.t. liang had a (kind of reluctant) teacher who could jump up onto a table without apparently moving first, too. like a cat.

the student of his who told me the story said that the guy who showed liang that could do form, and you could touch his calves anytime, and they'd be soft as cotton. that's something practical to work on. god knows how the old guy did it. but i believe he did.
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Strange on Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:57 am

cotton calves - must be some very pure unadulterated intent at work
thanks for sharing, S :)
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Bob on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:52 am

I think the cat metaphor predates good old Jou---failure of citation! LOL

http://www.geocities.com/meiyingsheng/maoxing.html

Taiji Cat Walking Step
by Mei Yingsheng
Translated by Ted W. Knecht

The Mao Xing Step, also known as the Cat Walking step, is a very important component of Tai Ji Quan. At present, most Tai Ji stylists are unaware of its practice. This is due to unknown reasons for the disciples of the Late Yang Cheng Fu incorporated this walking step to the traditional Yang long form. This article has been translated from a thesis written by Dr. Mei Ying Sheng to explain the importance of the Mao Xing Step. Dr. Mei is a Doctor of Western and Traditional Chinese medicine and is a a disciple of Grandmaster Fu Zhong Wen of Shang Hai, China.

The term Mao Xing Step has been used since the publication of Yang Cheng Fu's book entitled, The Practice of Tai Ji Quan. In the book he stated that "the legs should be based upon Yin and Yang with the legs rising and lowering like a walking cat." Master Wu Yu Xiang wrote in his book, Essentials of Free-sparring, that one should "step like a walking cat and issue power (jin) like weaving silk."

In the traditional 108 posture Yang Style Tai Ji Quan fist set, postures such as Left Ward-off in Grasp Sparrow's Tail, Step Forward, Parry and Punch and others contain the Mao Xing Step. Altogether there are 58 times where the Mao Xing Step is carried out within the form. The step should not be restricted to only the open-hand form, but also should be incorporated into the Tai Ji Straightsword, Tai Ji Broadsword, and moving Push-hands. Consequently, this step is a very essential part of Yang Style Tai Ji.

Health Benefits of the Mao Xing Step

The Mao Xing Step is performed by the movement of the waist and spine. Within the process of the motion, all of the muscles below the rib cage are exercised as if twisting a wet rag. Based upon this phenomena, the Mao Xing Step will produce beneficial physicological responses in the body.

One of the most beneficial physicological responses to occur with steady practice is the improvement of blood circulation to the lower extremeties of the body. The Mao Xing Step will allow the leg muscles to contract and expand much more affectively than ordinary walking. This will, subsequently, allow blood from the heart to flow more freely through the legs. The Mao Xing Step can function as a gentle massage which will increase the elasticity of the blood vessels in the legs and feet. The increase in elasticity of the blood vessels will benefit those with high blood pressure, arthritis, and as an aid to increasing one's lifespan. Based upon the author's more than 40 years experience in the practice of Western and Traditional Chinese medicine and Yang Style Tai Ji, daily practice of the Mao Xing Step will effectively regulate blood pressure in both middle-aged and elderly people.

Research has shown that the heart rate of Tai Ji practioners is slower than those of the same age group who do not practice the art. Recent medical research has also shown a coorelation between heart rate and longevity where a slower heart rate will allow the muscles of the heart to relax a longer period of time thereby allowing the muscles to obtain sufficient rest and blood.

The Mao Xing Step is very beneficial for the waist and abdomen. The motion of the Mao Xing Step will not only gently relax and turn the waist, but will also exercise the abdomen muscles in all directions. The overall movement will improve the internal and external muscles of the waist and abdomen by strecthing and strenghtening.

Method of Practice

The Mao Xing Step should be one of the most basic components incorporated into one's Tai Ji practice. The method of practice is as follows:

Begin in a left front bow stance with the upper body erect. Place the hands on the waist, and visualize a bowl of water on the top of one's head to aid in proper alignment of the Bai Hui acupoint located on top of the head and the Hui Yin point between the anus and the reproduction organ. This imaginary straight line should remain straight during the entire stepping process. The hips should be relaxed and rounded. The left front leg holds 70 percent of one's body weight while the right back leg holds the remaining 30 percent.

The waist sinks downward and rotates to the left. The left hip sinks inward and slightly turns outward. The toes of the left foot rise up and turn out 45 degrees still maintaining 70 percent of the weight on the leg; afterwhich, the toes lower to the ground. The force (Jin) is spiraled into the ground. After stabilizing the left leg and one's center, the right leg relaxes as the hips are used to raise the heel of the right foot.

The toes of the right foot naturally hang down approximately two millimeters above the ground as it slowly moves to the front.

The right foot passes approximately five millimeters away from the inside of the left foot.

The joint of the right hip is used to carry the right knee and toes, in a relaxed manner, to the front.

Still maintaining one's weight on the left leg bring the right leg to full extention as the toes rise upward. The heel then lightly touches the ground.

The toes of the right foot slowly lower to the ground as the knee of the left leg straightens thereby exerting a forward force. The lower half of the right leg is vertical to the ground to form a right front bow stance.

Important Points: The line of motion of the right foot is an inward arc from a left front bow stance to a right front bow stance. The Mao Xing Step should be performed slowly and evenly while keeping in accord with the requirements of Tai Ji Quan.

In general, the degree of difficulty to correctly perform the step is relatively high and the physical benefits are great. The entire body will perspire and become hot only after three minutes of continuous practice. Most beginners will find that after three minutes, the muscles of the legs and back will be sore the following day. The soreness will disappear upon continued practice of the step. After the Mao Xing step has been mastered, hand postures can be incorporated with the step and performed as single exercises such as Brush Knee with Twist Step. However, the prime goal is to be able to perform the Mao Xing Step in all moving sequences within the form.

http://www.geocities.com/meiyingsheng/index.html
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby RobP2 on Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:02 am

I learnt that as "tiger stepping" though never got through the whole form doingit. There was another version where the empty leg is placed on the opposite thigh and each posture held for a short time
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:39 pm

"First in the Mind and then in the Body."
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Re: "What Makes Taijiquan, Taijiquan?"

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:04 pm

Shoulders down , elbows down , crown up, neck straight, chest round , back round , hips tucked. looks like Taiji to me.
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