what's the deal with the wu style lean?

[Bao]

Over the admittedly short time I studied Wu style I was taught to tuck the tailbone when standing without a lean, and I think when standing with a lean the tailbone was untucked.

I have no idea about the wu style, but in general, "tailbone tucking" means compression of the stomach/dan tian. This is storing energy. You can store and release movement, adding momentum, using the movement of the spine etc. In my world there is no fixed position of the tailbone. The spine needs to be active, always in movement. You draw power and energy ("circulate qi") from the movement of the spine.

[chicagoTaiJi]

chicago taiji, there are other users who do not like divulging their teacher's name for many reasons. what we really need to know is what style do you train, and for how long have you been training? from where/who you learn is also good information. sometimes differences in opinion are purely stylistic within a system (in this case the taiji system). there are different ways to interpret fundamental things in each system.

personally I think the wu style lean is because it's small circle, so is more shuai-jiao like. and we tend to have a lean in many shuaijiao techniques as well, for leverage reasons.

Hi nianfong,
I've studied basic Chinese internal martial arts, including xingyi, as well as Yang taiji for about 7 years.

I hope to discuss not based on the rules of those particular styles but rather from a practical and scientific point of view... thats one reason why I shied away from my personal history or details. when i disagree with how a certain martial art's rules are to be, my intent is not to prove that I'm right but to learn something and be proven that I'm wrong. I hope if I say the back leg is straight in this certain martial art, that someone can point out some authoritative picture/reference that it's not. It's probably not good of me to state it in this way, but rather to ask where the people learned that. I do admit that much

some things are style (should the back leg be straight or not?) - this could pertain to a training method. usually I don't argue frmo the point of view of a style or training method, but rather of efficacy and applicability.

for example, while maybe some styles like to train a stance that has the back leg bent (i.e. more than 5% bent). if you apply this in a practical sense, at the point in time in which contact is made, it can be shown that a very bent back leg versus a straight leg which can immediately support the weight is much less practical. if you hold a "bow stance" with a bent back leg and a run into you and push you over, you'd be much less stable....

wu jianquan was very good about getting low as I understand, but nowadays you see people in the wu style way overleaning ( going way over the front knee )...

but this is good - not over knee... :
http://www.wu-taichi.info/wuflying%28colour%29.jpg

[cdobe]

Does Wu style teach to "tuck" the tailbone?

I am still curious about this.

I wouldn't call it tucking. But all the Wu style versions I'm familiar with do have instructions that go in that direction. Some call it centering the tailbone, some call it lengthening the back/spine or dropping the buttocks, flatten the lower back etc... It is a postural requirement and not so much a mechanism of power generation. But I also wouldn't completely disagree with James or David, because there is still movement in the lower back. If you're doing a Peng or Ji type of movement for example, the lower back would of course extend somewhat. The guideline that there's a tuck in the upright body positions, sounds like a standardization of this phenomenon for teaching, but I'm sure they would also correct everyone who sticks out their buttocks in the "leaning" postures as well.

CD

[cdobe]

wu jianquan was very good about getting low as I understand, but nowadays you see people in the wu style way overleaning ( going way over the front knee )...

but this is good - not over knee... :
http://www.wu-taichi.info/wuflying%28colour%29.jpg

I used beautiful colours for this picture, don't you think ?

[everything]

Before I finish let me give you an idea of where I am at in relation to your questions. You'll forgive me, I hope, for using someone else's words (Bruce Kumar Frantzis). When most people fight "It's like a staccato drum beat - an ever repeating pattern between relax, recharge, tense relax etc. Very often, without most people realizing it, there's an unconscious time lapse between when they stop and when they recharge. And in this gap or pause, the mind often unconsciously goes temporarily blank, leaving the body without power, if only for a very small amount of time."

He continues "If you reach a stage where your mind ceases to disconnect, you start to noticing how other people disconnect in almost invisible, micro-intervals of time. When you catch someone in the gap between a disconnect and a re-connect, a stop and a re-ignition, you will find that they are frozen and defenseless, if only for micro seconds at a time."

Now what I am talking about in quoting Mr Frantzis is a level of skill that depends on your shen fa and how well developed it is. Maybe this is what you were driving at with your questions, but I doubt it.

Don't know what this thread is about now, but Frantzis' quotes are great. Very applicable immediately.

[Ba-men]

Sprint wrote:

You don't sound all that humble, actually you come across as sarcastic and more than just a little patronizing. It also sounds like you don't like being questioned or answered back to. Actually you also come across as more than a little aggressive, and finally you seem to be more than a little pleased with yourself "( I know I could)".

I wasn't trying to be patronizing or aggressive. I was just asking you legit questions because your last post sounded like you knew something... Here is what you wrote....


Sprint wrote:
Sorry to butt in at the end here, but can you explain this a bit more? Unless I am missing something this does not sound all that advanced. In karate for example this is something which is taught fairly early on in the students development. I'm sure it's the same with boxing and probably most contact martial arts.
[/b]

In my opinion I interpreted your post just the way you intended it to be interpeted....

And Yes, I am pleased with myself, because I knew what your answer would be before you gave it.

P.S. Hopefully you comprehend what just happened.

I'm willing start anew....

[DeusTrismegistus]

Does Wu style teach to "tuck" the tailbone?

I am still curious about this.

I wouldn't call it tucking. But all the Wu style versions I'm familiar with do have instructions that go in that direction. Some call it centering the tailbone, some call it lengthening the back/spine or dropping the buttocks, flatten the lower back etc... It is a postural requirement and not so much a mechanism of power generation. But I also wouldn't completely disagree with James or David, because there is still movement in the lower back. If you're doing a Peng or Ji type of movement for example, the lower back would of course extend somewhat. The guideline that there's a tuck in the upright body positions, sounds like a standardization of this phenomenon for teaching, but I'm sure they would also correct everyone who sticks out their buttocks in the "leaning" postures as well.

CD

Well the reason I asked is because I have been practicing on "tucking" straightening the lower back etc lately and I noticed that if you have that shen fa requirement it makes it difficult to maintain an upright upper body and "straighten" the back leg when in stances like the one used for brush knee, add a little lean though and the alignment kinda snaps into place and feels very strong.

Side note: for those that might remember a discussion called "to tuck or not to tuck" I believe a while back, I posted saying that I had been taught to not stick the butt out and not have the hips too far forward but to maintain a middle position. Well a few months ago my teacher told me to start "tucking", straightening the lower back more. I asked him if you could tuck too much and he said yes, but I shouldn't worry about it since I can't even tuck them enough, ha. So I was only a quarter right I guess back then.

[Sprint]

P.S. Hopefully you comprehend what just happened.

I'm tempted to say no....

I'm willing start anew....

That won't be necessary.

[johnwang]

Its just polite to introduce yourself when asked,

It's not always a good idea to introduce yourself in too much detail.

I'm a disciple of Taiji master Yang Lu-Chan. I'm 200 years old and have killed 100 people in my life time. The FBI is looking for me and I'm hidden in Amazon jungle right at this moment ....

[Daniel]

We finally found you! John, we have you now...


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.