Internal Training and External Conditioning

[mixjourneyman]

Darth: spot on! I want to learn bagua dao, since it is similar in size to a kwan dao and you can get them in various weight ranges.
My arms still hurt from walking with the bagua jian this morning.

[iwalkthecircle]

just SC once a week.
lots sex if possible.
some biking.
some tree climbing.
swim.


all internal & external.

[Chris Fleming]

I have a similar kwan dao as well. 40lbs, got it from John Lee's ITG8.com. I love that thing. So I use that, and also the bagua broadsword that used to be sold by traditionalstudies.org

I've been hitting the weights much lately as well. Squats and deadlifts mainly. Working on the Sig Klein challenge too. People at the gym think I'm crazy because I use dumbbells for pressing rather than the constant bench presses and chest flys that people are always thinking they should do.

And when I'm not doing those one of my favorites is the 2 hands anyhow lift with an 80lbs and a 53lbs kettlebell. Swings with the 80 pounder are great too.

For internal, that's where the "three sisters" come in. Bagua, Xing Yi and Taiji. I do lots of chi gong too.

Then again, from the way I see it, one aspect of internal power is generating whole body force, so being able to lift a heavy weight with the whole body is just as "internal" to me as other methods.

Yo Bill, I didn't know you were in Boston. Next time I'm up there visiting Dale I'll have to see your school too! (Perhaps you remember me, I met you at last year's Gathering of the Circle with Shifu Painter)

[Dale Dugas]

Chris,

Next time you are up we definitely have to get together and have a good ole time at Bills wicked pissa kwoon.

You going to be coming up for the festival or gathering at all?

Talk to you soon.

Dale

[TaoBoxer]

Yeah Chris, come up any time. I've got 5 sets of Bells at the Kwoon and I'll be getting my 88's soon enough....

Lewitt

[meeks]

relaxed as in bob marley? or relaxed as is morehi ueshiba?

*golf claps* - perfect response to such a 'who gives a crap' question.

lots sex if possible

I wanna go train with the girls at THAT school...

[Ian]

relaxed as in bob marley? or relaxed as is morehi ueshiba?

*golf claps* - perfect response to such a 'who gives a crap' question.

I give a crap.

Because I like Taoboxer's level of skill, because I have a similar strength training regimen as his, and because I think it's a crucial question.

[Chris Fleming]

That is actually a damn good question.

___________________________

Lately I've been especially hitting the squats. To me it in a sense (follow me here) cultivates the sha jing or killer energy, or simply a very strong sense of determination. I mean, loading up a heavy bar and doing some reps is a tall order when you are doing just that, putting a very heavy weight on your body, dropping down and then standing up. At times there comes a point where the body wants to quit but you know damn well that failure is not an option. Even in the squat rack with the safety pins in place, I wouldn't want to have to figure out how to not hurt myself at such a moment. Hence, failure is not an option. That being the case, with such a "do or die" situation, doing a few sets of squats makes me feel like I'm going to the edge, and coming out alive. Going to the park to train some xing yi after that makes me feel like I can punch through a wall. That's internal in a different manner.

[TaoBoxer]

Chris,

You're right about being completely On-Task in lifting. It is an exercise in controlling Yi. One of my favorite lifts is the Turkish Get Up. You lay on the floor, press (in my case) 53 lbs straight over your head.... and then stand up with it. If you have no Yi..... you'll have no teeth.... It's that simple.

I don't see how you can seperate that from good Kung Fu...

Lewitt


PS- Ian, I think meeks was saying that the "how relaxed are you" question was crap.... Look at me, I made a funny :-D

[C.J.Wang]

For someone who understands the body mechanics of generating whole-body energy, weight lifting is actually very beneficial and "internal" - as Chris pointed out.

As far as internal and external training, I believe both are important. My teachers calls it "maximizing your assets," meaning that internal artists, especially young ones, should work to develop external attributes such as muscular strength, endurance, flexibility, and speed as well.

In a fighting situation when one side is more skilled than the other, the skilled person can beat a stronger, larger opponent by utilizing his body more efficiently to overcome the physical disadvantage. However, if both sides are equally matched in terms of skill, whoever is better conditioned externally obviously has an advantage.

[C.J.Wang]

lots sex if possible.
.

Although the negative effects of oversex vary from person to person, it'd still be a good idea to regulate sex life and not to over indulge.

According to Chinese medical theory, too much sex drains the kidney of its essence and effects the bone. Other side effects include weak knees, ringing in ear, oversweating, decreased level of energy and endurance, back pain, etc.

[Chris Fleming]

Chris,

You're right about being completely On-Task in lifting. It is an exercise in controlling Yi. One of my favorite lifts is the Turkish Get Up. You lay on the floor, press (in my case) 53 lbs straight over your head.... and then stand up with it. If you have no Yi..... you'll have no teeth.... It's that simple.

I don't see how you can seperate that from good Kung Fu...

Lewitt


PS- Ian, I think meeks was saying that the "how relaxed are you" question was crap.... Look at me, I made a funny :-D

Ah yes, the get up. I was doing that (with my 80lbs bell) on the field back at last years gathering of the circle and one of our classmates was walking by and had a very disapproving look on his face! No yi, no teeth, no skull, etc.

[Bodywork]

lots sex if possible.
.

Although the negative effects of oversex vary from person to person, it'd still be a good idea to regulate sex life and not to over indulge.

According to Chinese medical theory, too much sex drains the kidney of its essence and effects the bone. Other side effects include weak knees, ringing in ear, oversweating, decreased level of energy and endurance, back pain, etc.

Hmm..Actually you're talking abou orgasming to much not how long you can have sex.
Then again with correct breathing and energy recovery you can have sex for hours and hours, till she passes out in ecstasy, wakes up and you can keep going. Or she pleads, not again!! There are many stories of guys with this training going through many women while retaining their semen till they decide not to. It is relatively easy to learrn and in your 50's its nice to do be able to do it at will for as long as you want and there is an energy boost while doing it that intensifies and can get quite addicting, in and of itself. YMMV
IMO much of everything else in the thread about lifting and what exercises to do are off the mark. Lifting weights is fine. But lifting weights will NOT offer the same benefits as internal training. They are completely different in what it does to your body and how it will be used in fighting and in work. And all this lifting with KB's and such will be counterproductive to your efforts in pursuing internal power. Going through cycles of power lifting while continuing your internal training and then dropping the power lifting all together will clearly demonstrate its effects on you. it will also show how long it takes to counter the effects. Do it a few times and you may get a better understanding of what is going on in you. I think anyone who has internal power, working and growing in them will identify it, jealousy guard it, and pursue it. Pursuing it in combination with a more practical fighting method may lead one to find a life's worth of work ahaead of them.
People talk either dismissively about internal power, as if they know what it is and thus can dismiss it. Or, as if they have it down pat, so they can expertly judge its value, how to train it, and what the value it has in it's totality, in use in the arts.
I wonder how that expertise would pan out in any form of testing against a real expert?

[TaoBoxer]

Bodywork,

I agree with what you're saying more or less..... But the title of the thread is Internal training AND External conditioning...... I do a lot of qigong, under the direction of my Sifu who has killed Cancer under labratory conditions purely with Intent.... He likes to watch us lift and talk to us between sets. If I was doing anything he didn't approve of, i'm sure I'd hear about it.

The idea that you're gonna destroy people simply because you meditate is laughable. The idea that you can pull off the high level "internal" masters tricks that work so well on students on people who truly wish you ill is eqaully funny.

All 3 of my teachers are very very skilled Internal players. All of them have done serious "external" conditioning in their lives. THe point of this post was to see who is efficiently mixing Internal and External work the ay that (i believe) it was always meant to be. Seems like we're regressing into all the same old BS labels though, aren't we?

Lewitt

[Walter Joyce]

Having met both you and Bodywork Bill, I can assure you that he is not talking about meditation as a means to external strength, nor did he appear to be a stranger to physical fitness. I'm surprised to hear that he doesn't lift given his physique.