Internal Training and External Conditioning

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Internal Training and External Conditioning

Postby Bhassler on Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:24 am

Bodywork wrote:I think we could also say you just described your understanding of what you think I meant. Or what you know I meant that I don't know I meant. 8-)
I've had any number of folks tell me I was doing this or that that they knew, who themselves couldn't do squat to me or with me. On the other hand I had a Taiji grandmasters hands all over my body testig me while I was moving, telling me I was doing Taiji with my body, and that he wanted to train me, and invited me to come live with him in China and train. I'm simplistic. I'm doing DR internal training in my body. It's all I know. I' "hear you" that some of these basic aspects of strengthened central equilbrium through contradictory forces, trained through structure and intent is everywhere and many people know it. I just don't believe its true that all that many have any real applied knowledge in practical use. And that is just the basic stuff. I keep "hearing" all kinds of things regarding what folks know and have been taught intellectually.


I agree 100%. I just like to offer some other modalities for describing the phenomena because it's a personal interest of mine and I also think it's beneficial when it comes to passing stuff along. Pretty much any jackass can teach someone who is talented, intelligent, dedicated, and willing to work hard-- a real teacher does his best work with those who are less talented and are not able to dedicate their lives to a single esoteric practice. I've found that mastery of language is a wonderful asset to have when teaching. Plus, as a relatively young guy in the arts I like to put my ideas out so that hopefully someone will challenge them in a meaningful way.

Thanks again for the discussion.
What I'm after isn't flexible bodies, but flexible brains.
--Moshe Feldenkrais
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Re: Internal Training and External Conditioning

Postby edededed on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:32 pm

Thank you for the very interesting explanations here, Dan - I am a bit surprised that you are a Daito-ryu exponent, though, as I could have sworn that you were describing standing exercises! Training relaxation with contradictory tendon tension sounds very similar - are there similar exercises in Daito-ryu to train this kind of thing as well? (Standing methods perhaps?)
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Re: Internal Training and External Conditioning

Postby Chris Fleming on Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:57 pm

Well then, another no-yi-no-skull lift would be the barbell side press. Done in a gym it may make some concerned, or puzzled. One time I had a person ask me if I was a cheerleader--you know, a male cheerleader who would lift a chick up with one arm. Uh no, but good guess, I said. A classic lift, the side press/bent press makes for much arm strength, core strength and joint stability.

In other news, the Inside Kung Fu article (where we see that Jess O Brien is an old Chinese man) stated that Wang Shu Jin would walk the circle every morning with a heavy pole. My teacher recently taught me a similar method like this. Strength is very much needed, but the muscles themselves alone have a limited shelf life. Structure, of course, and yi along with internal meditation/action principles such as John Painter's Yi Xin Gong help with this sort of thing.

Other examples:

Cheng Ting Hua was said to walk the circle with a weight vest on and raising and lowering two buckets of water. I have a 50lbs vest but haven't tried any buckets!

Yang Jwing Ming/Liang Shou Yu's Emei bagua zhang book has a gong chapter. Shows them walking with bricks, walking on bricks, walking with bricks on bricks, etc.

Train hard.
Chris Fleming

 

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