I just vented.

[Tom]

http://wusource.org/content/your-shit-if-fake

I feel much better now. Thank you.

[Mut]

jesus Graham, now we know your shit is fake

[GrahamB]

[mixjourneyman]

I think the thing is that we all have different opinions of what is "real" and what is "fraudulent".
For instance, I think we would all agree that the "dragon" style guy who does the little bit of terrible circle walking in that video where he says he can cure AIDS is pretty much a fraud. However by the same token, I can see why Tadz gets pissed of when someone who is clearly doing hebei style xingyi says they are doing song style.
I think we would also agree that our chosen martial discipline is a matter of personal pride for most of us.
Basically the way I go by now is that if there are a certain number of practitioners from the same family who do stuff the same way and then someone comes out and says they are from that family but do things completely differently, then perhaps that person's stuff should be looked into a little more carefully to see if what he/she is doing is really from the family they claim to be.
Fraud is a huge problem in martial arts and CMA'ists really like to tie themselves to the big names, so I think its perfectly fair to try to work out where who's stuff comes from. Otherwise we just end up with a whole bunch of ambiguous hodgepodge and its hard to set a standard.

Having said that I would also like to add IMHO, YMMV, Etc....

[Josealb]

Also....if you get 10 random people in a room, and 9 agree on something...theres a high chance that they are correct. Agreeing, for example, that the one who is left's shit is fake. Its not only probable...but possible, and worth considering.

On the other hand, you can consider that one guy who says all 9 are wrong...but, common. Its a long shot.

IMO, the best way to figure it out? hands on experience and experimentation, also known as fighting.

[Darthwing Teorist]

The one who leaves that room alive, is probably right.

[Josealb]

+ 1.

[Felipe Bidó]

IMO, the best way to figure it out? hands on experience and experimentation, also known as fighting.

Remember the quote from our teacher?

"If someone comes to me telling me that his 'Downward Beng Quan' is genuine, and I say it's wrong; and after that he beats me with his Beng Quan...his Beng Quan is more genuine than mine".

But that's just one side of 'fakeness'. Your shit is fake if you don't know how to use it...also, 'your shit is fake' if you are just making up your own rules as you go, maybe because you didn't learn the right rules, or you are just too lazy/proud to take time to learn them. That's the case of guys that only train for a few months and they just fill the gaps with whatever they invent at the time, and try to pass it off as better than the original.

Remember that guy that used to post videos saying that he knew Xingyi, (and trying to teach it on the videos) but he pronounced Pi Quan as "Pi Kwan"?...someone should have told him that pinyin is pronounced differently than it's read.

All in all, the worse types of fakes (IMO) are those who try to preach to the choir, but don't actually go to church on a daily basis. And those types are more inclined to shout "You don't know what you're talking about; I do...I do know how to sing"

[mixjourneyman]

The one who leaves that room alive, is probably right.

[mixjourneyman]

Dude I'll smash you with my pi kwan... Pi kwan is the smashing fist right?

[klonk]

Pie kwan, let's see. That's a part of Hissing Eye, isn't it? Thanks. I didn't know it meant Smashing Fist.

The interweb is so educational, doncha know?

[Felipe Bidó]

The guy was a Wing Chun player so maybe he thought: "Hey, Xingyi and Wing Chun look alike, right?. And Xingyi looks so simple...and since I'm a Wingchun BADAAAAASSSSSS, it's gonna be easy for me".

[Mut]

The one who leaves that room alive, is probably right.

on this. just because the one who looks different does not mean the claim is fraudulent, perhaps the one has understood better and developed his/her own way of using the said syste3m, while the other 9 are still at the level of copying the master.... i.e: they don't "own" the style yet

having said this there are many people who claim things and have no basis on which to make that claim. I know people in both those camps.

[mixjourneyman]

The one who leaves that room alive, is probably right.

on this. just because the one who looks different does not mean the claim is fraudulent, perhaps the one has understood better and developed his/her own way of using the said syste3m, while the other 9 are still at the level of copying the master.... i.e: they don't "own" the style yet

having said this there are many people who claim things and have no basis on which to make that claim. I know people in both those camps.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but after someone modifies what the master taught him to a big degree then it is his own style.
In our camp what we say is that you should teach the standard syllabus and develop your own practice for yourself (in a nutshell).

[edededed]

Also....if you get 10 random people in a room, and 9 agree on something...theres a high chance that they are correct. Agreeing, for example, that the one who is left's shit is fake. Its not only probable...but possible, and worth considering.

The above is sort of true, but also dangerous as an assumption, as it makes common misconceptions really hard to change. An old Chinese saying is "three people can make a tiger," which is sort of like saying that the boy who cried wolf would have had a lot more believers if there were three of them.