what is MMA missing?

[BruceP]

Wanderingdragon wrote:[/b]

I have mentioned on previous threads that if your art is an authentic art it should completely prepare you for all eventualities of combat , striking, kicking, throwing, locking, groundfighting,whatever is encountered in the course of conflict. Every TIMA , Bagua, Tai Chi, and Xing I, among the "Big Three" encompasses these necessities in it's arsenals, if you take the time to learn the art

oo oo oo...I wanna be the first to say it. Are you ready? Ok, here it goes;

Oh yeah, that's just common sense

How long have you had this idea knocking around in you melon, wanderingdragon? It wasn't long ago (yesterday maybe) that that kinda thinking meant that you weren't really training authentic ima.

[Wanderingdragon]

D_Glenn,
No thanks....I'll be out in the backyard eating red meat, smoking cigars and drinking scotch with Teddy Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and G. Gordon Liddy enjoying my uncultured Neanderthal status.

lets not forget to call ...Denny Crain...

[Wanderingdragon]

Wanderingdragon wrote:[/b]

I have mentioned on previous threads that if your art is an authentic art it should completely prepare you for all eventualities of combat , striking, kicking, throwing, locking, groundfighting,whatever is encountered in the course of conflict. Every TIMA , Bagua, Tai Chi, and Xing I, among the "Big Three" encompasses these necessities in it's arsenals, if you take the time to learn the art

oo oo oo...I wanna be the first to say it. Are you ready? Ok, here it goes;

Oh yeah, that's just common sense

How long have you had this idea knocking around in you melon, wanderingdragon? It wasn't long ago (yesterday maybe) that that kinda thinking meant that you weren't really training authentic ima.

No Scooter, common sense is in knowing this fight is over.

[BruceP]

Wonderingdragon, what fight?

[Wanderingdragon]

Ah! you noticed

[Chris McKinley]

You know, I'm kinda disappointed that this thread went the direction it did and even, to some extent, that it was framed this way in the first place. We had a few interesting threads last year that, maybe for the first time on this forum, began to discuss the pragmatic aspects of the MMA approach to training in a fairly objective way without setting up an "us vs. them" argument yet again.

Just as importantly, there were several good ideas shared regarding how to take our TMA material and work it such that it yielded a similar pragmatic functionality to that found in the arts that usually comprise the MMA amalgam. It seems now, though, that instead of following through on some of those ideas and seeing where our curiosity might take us, we're back to viewing the situation as TMA versus MMA again. In fact, the tone of this very thread began by framing MMA as somehow needing exposure as to the myriad of weaknesses it contains, but yet somehow hides from the unknowing general public. There was also an implied "superiority of IMA" tone to it as well. Sadly, this spoke more to jealousy than anything productive. Perhaps we managed to salvage something of use out of it eventually, but really....can't we get past this mindset? Those on the MMA side abandoned the MMA/TMA feud a number of years ago now. It seems only those of us on the TMA side still seem to want to dredge it up again for the drama.

[mrtoes]

Chris I really doubt Yusuf wanted to create a confrontation with his question, but rather was looking for a new spin on a familiar discussion. Always difficult to see how these things will turn out (well or maybe not so surprising in retrospect)

The trouble is it's something for all sorts of people to push their particular viewpoint on. What is MMA? Competing in the sports combat we all know and love and the associated ruleset? Studying thai boxing with BJJ with takedowns? Any mixture of cross training that includes striking, standing grappling and ground fighting? Formless as opposed to form training? Modern strength building methods instead of traditional? Clarifying that would take a lot of the "us and them" out of it I think, as we could be objective rather than engaging in labelling.

I've been following both threads with interest anyway and look forward to further discussion on this one. Perhaps framed in a way that doesn't rub against people so much. I don't think I know enough to contribute myself and also I'm deliberately keeping my mind open. I'd be amazed if they don't both have something to offer. What I do know both MMA and TMA guys who can take me out with very little trouble whatsoever Clearly you can go a long way with either.

[yusuf]

Thanks Mr Toes

Chris... I would be interested to hear more on this, not just for my own training benefit but maybe also to dispel some of the idolatry on both sides of the divide. Here is hoping that those of you who do have the knowledge are willing to open a thread with a more sensible context.

peace

yusuf

[Chris McKinley]

yusuf,

I was probably venting as much as you were, really. There are a few threads that I'll have to search up, but for the next couple of hours, I'm dealing with 70-80 mph straight winds and a huge grass fire in the state, so I'll have to get to it later this evening.

[DeusTrismegistus]

You know, I'm kinda disappointed that this thread went the direction it did and even, to some extent, that it was framed this way in the first place. We had a few interesting threads last year that, maybe for the first time on this forum, began to discuss the pragmatic aspects of the MMA approach to training in a fairly objective way without setting up an "us vs. them" argument yet again.

Just as importantly, there were several good ideas shared regarding how to take our TMA material and work it such that it yielded a similar pragmatic functionality to that found in the arts that usually comprise the MMA amalgam. It seems now, though, that instead of following through on some of those ideas and seeing where our curiosity might take us, we're back to viewing the situation as TMA versus MMA again. In fact, the tone of this very thread began by framing MMA as somehow needing exposure as to the myriad of weaknesses it contains, but yet somehow hides from the unknowing general public. There was also an implied "superiority of IMA" tone to it as well. Sadly, this spoke more to jealousy than anything productive. Perhaps we managed to salvage something of use out of it eventually, but really....can't we get past this mindset? Those on the MMA side abandoned the MMA/TMA feud a number of years ago now. It seems only those of us on the TMA side still seem to want to dredge it up again for the drama.

Unfortunately It seems any talk to MMA usually devolves into TMA vs MMA. However I also find the general attitude of many people regarding this very question to be close minded. They act like if you say their art is missing X then that is an attack on what they practice. If anything by helping define clearly what areas of combat any art develop it allows us as practitioners to evaluate that art in context to what we seek to gain by practicing martial arts. There isn't anything wrong with an art missing something, there is simply too much to include every aspect of every type of combat from sport to military and everything in between.

[Chris McKinley]

Calmly, objectively and rationally spoken, sir.

[JusticeZero]

Honestly, i'm on the verge of classifying "MMA" (Does anyone know of any other names for this?) AS a european TMA.

[RobP2]

Honestly, i'm on the verge of classifying "MMA" (Does anyone know of any other names for this?) AS a european TMA.

Longswords and bows - that's what it's been missing!

[Chris McKinley]

Ahem, Rob.....maybe your practice is missing those things. Mine also has shield, glaive, knife, axe and spear! I'm an SCA geek. We just had a big demonstration fair last weekend and another fighting event this weekend.

[RobP2]

Haha touche! Well I'm not averse to a bit of sword work.... Actually one of our guys trains in English backsword, quarterstaff and wrestling, so we get some interesting stuff from him.

Good luck this weekend!