how to make training more real

[mixjourneyman]

First let me say that I know this topic has been hashed out here hundreds of times, but I think I have some important questions to add to the mix:

As I progress in my training I am starting to see a lot of bullshit in "traditional" training methods. I know that these methods can produce good results, but for the most part they way they are presented won't really help you in a physical conflict beyond maybe getting lucky.
I do a lot of freestyle sparring and application drills but I just don't think that they have the realism to allow me to survive in a situation where someone is intent on killing me and my adrenaline is dumping like crazy.
But the question comes up in my mind constantly as to what I am really training for.
I don't think I'm going to compete in MMA or even Sanda any time soon, but I have respect for the degree of severity those people bring to their training.
There is a chance I could be attacked viciously at some point, even by armed assailants, and I would definitely like to have the tools to deal with that, but at the same time, I don't want to become another paranoid martial artist and besides, there is no guarantee that the tools I work to develop will be sufficient or even come to me at the time of an attack.
I really like traditional methods for a number of non fighting reasons. I like how they make me feel, I like the mental benefits, and I like their aesthetic. I think there is real value in traditional methods but I feel like there is also a real confusion in my mind for what I should be doing with them.
I have asked a couple guys privately about how to make training more real and I think they have given me pretty accurate answers, but again the problem arises with exactly what I should be aiming to get out of my training.

This is a question that if one has not already asked themselves probably should be asked.
So I want to open it up to the floor:

What is it exactly that you are trying to get out of your training?
Why do you train the way you do?
What do you expect to get out of it and how will you get there?

End rant.

[GrahamB]

Good rant Mix. I like to read when people start to question things and think for themselves. Good stuff.


b.t.w There's always the answer from the Film Fight Club - "your mission this week is to go out, start a fight... and lose". That would be one way

[mixjourneyman]

See the thing is I'm not even sure if "fighting" ability is what I want to get out of martial arts. Of course having said that I don't know if health or spirituality is what I'm looking for either. I kind of just stumbled into MA and then later heard that some people did some really great things with them. I've been around long enough now to see that most people don't do anything great or even remotely good with MA (self included at this point) and that there is a lot of navel gazing and dishonesty.
At this point I honestly just want to look into finding out what I want from MA, setting a goal, and either getting there or getting as close as possible.

[yusuf]

Mix

could you post up what these guys said about making it more real...

thanks

yusuf

[GrahamB]

See the thing is I'm not even sure if "fighting" ability is what I want to get out of martial arts. Of course having said that I don't know if health or spirituality is what I'm looking for either. I kind of just stumbled into MA and then later heard that some people did some really great things with them. I've been around long enough now to see that most people don't do anything great or even remotely good with MA (self included at this point) and that there is a lot of navel gazing and dishonesty.
At this point I honestly just want to look into finding out what I want from MA, setting a goal, and either getting there or getting as close as possible.

Well, you could set a goal, but then you get there what do you do? Give up? Go do something else?

From your post I'm missing the sense that you actually enjoy it - do you enjoy it? If not then what is stopping you enjoying it? Maybe the answer lies in that? As soon as you enjoy something it then become a lot easier to motivate yourself. In fact you don't have to try, it's just what you do.

The other side of the coin is that there's no "one answer" to any of this. I've found that martial arts presents a whole bag of reasons to do it. Traditional martial arts take a lot of investment to learn well, and the question arises as to why we are doing it at all - for fun, for fighting, for the preservation of history, to learn about nature, to learn about what it means to be a human being. Real traditional Marital Arts are about all of those, but if time is limited you can focus the time you have to do a few things well or study a broad range "out of interest".

[Ian]

Whatever you plan to do, you should really read Gavin De Becker - The Gift of fear, at least once.

[RobP2]

You answer it in some ways when you say "what do you want from your training"

Plenty of people train for exercises, aesthetics, social or cultural reasons and there is nothing wrong with any of that, in fact is should form some of the mix for everyone - professional guys apart, perhaps.

But if you are talking about realism in training then I think you have to address the core issues. I don't see any distinction between "fight" training and "spiritual" training here. It's still the same issues - fear, ego, tenacity, endurance, honesty. In a good training regime both would be tested realistically, but in such a way that allows you to learn from the experience. You can be put through the mill in a destructive way which might "toughen you up" a bit, but at what cost?

You can also take short cuts if you are prepared to submit to "real" training. But for most of us there isn't that level of motivation. I'm not talking about training for hours and hours a day, but being put into situations that demand an answer from you - with potentially dangerous consequences.

Like I say, for most of us that isn't an issue, so our training is extended out. But, if you want "realism" you still need to address those core issues. There should be no hiding place - and the ultimate reality is that you will die anyway, I'm sure that's one thing we can all agree on?

[GrahamB]

Whatever you plan to do, you should really read Gavin De Becker - The Gift of fear, at least once.

Hmmm... Chapter 11. "I was trying to let him down easy". Date Stalking.....

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[mixjourneyman]

Here is a list I made with goals from 1-10 in importance and a summary of what I think I should do with them.
Obviously its a work in progress.

What are you trying to achieve? (1-10):
Fighting ability? (yes 5 or 7).
Spirituality? (yes 5).
Confidence? (yes 10).
Health? (yes 10)
Making overall quality of life better (yes 10).



Summary: fighting ability seems like it is marginally important. I think I should break fighting ability down into two or three categories to clarify what it is I want. Self defense ranks high on the list and would maybe be the 7, whereas sport fighting might rank 4 or lower (though my ego loves the idea of fighting for sport). Fighting with friends for fun ranks pretty high, maybe 7 or 8, but I need to find a way to customize it so that I can get some use out of it as opposed to just farting around. I also need to think about what my friends want to get out of our sparring matches too, since they probably have their own goals. I need to think about how I can mesh my goals with those of my friends.

Spirituality also seems marginally important at this point. I think I need spirituality less than confidence at this point. Things I like about spiritual practice is the clarity of mind that the practice brings paired with some egotistical goals to heighten myself somehow above just being a normal person. I think the first one is valuable, the other one likely needs to be checked, since that type of goal isn't really helpful in actually doing anything concrete.

Confidence: I realized while writing this that confidence is one of the most important traits I want to develop in MA practice. I want to be able to make descisions easily and to be able to feel at ease in my own mind. I also want to be able to navigate interpersonal relations better. That second point may be difficult to include in the scope of martial training, but I think I should work on it since in person to person relations I am somewhat awkward.

Health: Really important. I think what I need to do in terms of health is to take up more cardiovascular and muscle building exercises. I think that this is important enough to even sacrafice doing form routines if I end up being too tired from the cardio routines to do them. I need to make or find a system that I can take with me and work as a routine that I can do several times a week. I also need to change my diet to accomidate this. I think changing my diet will be much harder than doing physical exercise, but it needs to be done.

Quality of life: The most important for me. I want to continue to enjoy life and even get more benefits in my life from phsyical practice. So far this has worked very well for my mental well being and feeling of physical wellbeing, but I think fitness should be a bigger component since the next area to improve the overall quality of my life is in making my body stronger.

Next I need to think about how to make these goals reality.

[RobP2]

Quality of life should be top of the list for everyone - after all everything else is just a contribution towards that. That's probably the major factor that changed my direction a few years back

[GrahamB]

What are you trying to achieve? (1-10):
Fighting ability? (yes 5 or 7).
Spirituality? (yes 5).
Confidence? (yes 10).
Health? (yes 10)
Making overall quality of life better (yes 10).

I've put you into a complicated research algorithm I've written in Objective C on my iPhone and the results based on your input selection criteria is: "Ashtanga Yoga"!

Thank you for playing.

[mixjourneyman]

Quality of life should be top of the list for everyone - after all everything else is just a contribution towards that. That's probably the major factor that changed my direction a few years back

In my opinion improving the quality of life should be our utmost goal in any activity.
I'm just trying to sort out the next steps I should take to do that

[everything]

Confidence: I realized while writing this that confidence is one of the most important traits I want to develop in MA practice. I want to be able to make descisions easily and to be able to feel at ease in my own mind. I also want to be able to navigate interpersonal relations better. That second point may be difficult to include in the scope of martial training, but I think I should work on it since in person to person relations I am somewhat awkward.

I agree with your ratings and enjoyed reading your self-reflection, but only wish to comment on your Confidence goal, which relates to your top goal of quality of life. This one has -something- yet really -nothing- to do with MA.

Decisions - One way to get better at making decisions easily is to practice making them. Indeed, there may be no other way.

Relationships - really nothing to do with MA. Except that working on it helps in both cases.

Ease - knowing your own priorities and acting on them should help with both of the above and make you feel more at ease, peace, whatever.

I don't think fighting ability or emergency preparedness really factors in much. Making training "real" isn't really the point - it's making life "real" for yourself... ok, blah blah blah I blather.

[mixjourneyman]

the reason why I included interpersonal relationships is because in my view MA is entirely based on interpersonal interaction.
Every time you roll with your bro's or trade fists you are interacting with a person and establishing a relationship.
I think the visceral relationship of martial training really has a lot in common with interpersonal relationships based on other things.
I think a huge goal in MA training and personal relationships is to try to work with the person with whom you are relating.

[everything]

ok yes I agree, but that is such a small subset of the more complex (psychological and social) difficulties in non MA relationships.

I watched a comedian who mentioned this idea that women are smarter in relationships, but their only fault is thinking men are just as smart and are thinking like a woman would think about some emotional question (e.g., "where is our 6 month relationship going?"), when we are actually thinking "uughhhhhhmmmmm......" or "....hmm, it's been 6 months already? shit, I gotta get the oil changed ...".