Hitting Through or Hitting In?

[Ian]

Hi all,

When you hit, do you aim to hit straight through the person, or do you aim to hit inside the person?

I find it more useful to imagine putting the strike in and keeping it there, as opposed to hitting through.

How does it work in your practice?

[Daniel]

Depends on what kind of damage you want to cause, and what level of intention you´re working with, and whether it´s in training or real life.

Can you specify?



D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[Ian]

Lots of styles emphasise hitting through - walk through the guy as if he's not there, or focus on a point n meters behind your target.

Other styles emphasise hitting into the person and making the strike stick or travel inside the body. Targets include organs, biomechanical chains, areas of tension, and pressure points.

How is it taught in your style?

[GrahamB]

Lots of styles emphasise hitting through - walk through the guy as if he's not there, or focus on a point n meters behind your target.

Other styles emphasise hitting into the person and making the strike stick or travel inside the body. Targets include organs, biomechanical chains, areas of tension, and pressure points.

How is it taught in your style?

Like this:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4201

[middleway]

The real aim is to hit and the receiver not be pushed back at all, just fall where they stand like a rag. We train both though ... pushing through is part of the training progression.

cheers
Chris

[Chris McKinley]

Depends on if I need more fa or more an that day. Put simply, it's momentum vs. impulse momentum...it's all about how quickly the kinetic energy is transferred and how much mass is behind it throughout the transfer. This is something you do on the fly depending on what you need to have happen.

[cerebus]

Straight-line strikes, I hit in. Hooking strikes, I hit through. Kicks, I hit through.

[Jeice]

Depends who I'm hitting, why I'm hitting them, andd whether or not I'm wearing gloves.

Gloved:
Counter right cross to the chin I throw like he's not even there, my goal is to catch the tip of the chin and spin his head off like a wing nut. Throw a left hook to the body I want to start low and finish touching his heart.

[Ian]

The real aim is to hit and the receiver not be pushed back at all, just fall where they stand like a rag. We train both though ... pushing through is part of the training progression.

cheers
Chris

Chris I agree 100%.

Graham,

I watched the clip. To me that looks like long force in a push. How I was taught, long force or short force in a strike should produce the same effect - the receiver buckles where he stands. If you push him away you just have to chase him to finish your work. Pushing the guy makes sense in training drills, but if you were showing an application, I must admit I don't quite understand.

Depends on if I need more fa or more an that day. Put simply, it's momentum vs. impulse momentum...it's all about how quickly the kinetic energy is transferred and how much mass is behind it throughout the transfer. This is something you do on the fly depending on what you need to have happen.

Chris,

What are fa and an, applied to striking?

[D_Glenn]

The difference between 'emitting' or 'pressing' but in bagua you can 'fa' emit in everything so the difference would be more like is it a 'tui' (push) or a 'pi' (chop). Or actually its more like is it a normal 'fa' or is it a using more of a 'zhen' (shock) force.

振 'zhen' shocking is really the quality in CIMAs of getting a strike to enter in and disperse rather than just pass through.

[Chris McKinley]

Fa is essentially analogous to impulse momentum, whereas an is more like wave momentum....steadier, more like a push, with no clear punctuation in the force. Why choose? They're both very valuable.

[Ian]

Fa is essentially analogous to impulse momentum, whereas an is more like wave momentum....steadier, more like a push, with no clear punctuation in the force. Why choose? They're both very valuable.

If you're talking about impulse, the way you describe 'an' is also a type of impulse (a smaller force applied for a longer period of time).

As I understand it, the 'an' impulse is how you produce strikes where the fist looks like it travels slowly, sticks to the struck surface, and still produces a substantial effect inside the receiver.
1:12 in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0kQsvZeYkk

I agree both are valuable. I wasn't really asking anyone to choose between 'fa' and 'an'.

Rather I was asking how people visualise where their strikes are going and where they're ending up. Or how they target their strikes.

Hitting THROUGH allows you to issue a ton of heavy, blunt force (done correctly), no question about that. IMO visualising hitting IN affords much more nuance and control in your striking.

Another way to think about it is shooting a high power, high velocity rifle from far away (hitting through), versus shooting a low velocity, large caliber pistol from contact (hitting in).

[GrahamB]

Ian,

It's not a push - it's a strike, but you'd have to feel it to know the difference. I also train the 'drop 'em where they stand' approach.

Cheers
G

[BruceP]

Hitting in. Hitting through. What about hitting back into yourself?

The wave is different. Try it.

NIce clip, Graham. Why didn't you just grab his tie and start feeding him? What types of breathwork do you practice in your impact-management drills?

[Jeice]

Hitting in. Hitting through. What about hitting back into yourself?

The wave is different. Try it.

NIce clip, Graham. Why didn't you just grab his tie and start feeding him? What types of breathwork do you practice in your impact-management drills?

Not sure if this is what you're meaning, but when throwing multiple hooks I use the impact to instigate and accellerate the reverse in direction.