Leg twist (Kawazu gake) - illegal move in Judo?

[edededed]

Wow - how did you learn all the Japanese judo terms, John?

[johnwang]

Most of the time when Judo guys are talking, I won't know what they are talking about. I decide to change that. Besides in the past several months, I had some interest in comparison the difference between SC and Judo.

[edededed]

Thanks, sorry to derail the thread!

Back to John's question:

you could use kawazugake as an "action stopper" - kinda of block but throwing was not allowed when kawazugake was in locked position.

In Judo rules, can you use leg twist (Kawazu gake) to secure yourself

- if your opponent uses embracing (Ura Nage) from behind (use leg twist for defense)?
- and then use your leg block (O Guruma) or leg lift (Uchi Mata) afterward (use leg twist as fake, part of your combo)?

[wiesiek]

you could use kawazugake as an "action stopper" - kinda of block but throwing was not allowed when kawazugake was in locked position.

In Judo rules, can you use leg twist (Kawazu gake) to secure yourself

- if your opponent uses embracing (Ura Nage) from behind (use leg twist for defense)?
- and then use your leg block (O Guruma) or leg lift (Uchi Mata) afterward (use leg twist as fake, part of your combo)?

You`re right John
and answer for both questions is : yes
however
Hane goshi will be better choice than O guruma, because your hip and leg are alredy in nice position for this throw.
When used /Kawazu.../ as an ura nage stopper, inner sweeps - Ouch/kouchi gari combo looks the best for me
`cause again - your position beetween his legs asking about such solution

[johnwang]

The 挑leg lift (TIAO) - Uchi Mata doesn't require the foot to move as far as the 蹩 block (BIE) - O Guruma. But leg spring is a bit harder to do than leg block for beginner IMO. I also prefer leg bite (use your shin to press down the inside of your opponent's lower leg to cause his knee to bend outward) than 掛Inner heel sweep (GUA) - kouchi gari because the timing is not that important and also if you use 挑leg lift (TIAO) - Uchi Mata to lift one of your opponent's leg up, the 掛Inner heel sweep (GUA) - kouchi gari that you sweep the other leg off the ground will cause a hard fall for your opponent during practice.

You are right that to attack the inside part of your opponent's leg will be faster than to attack the outside part of your opponent's leg when using leg twist (Kawazu gake).

[Brady]

This is a great discussion Wiesek and JW, really learned some things here.

[jasonf]

Anybody know how common serious injuries are in competitive judo? I know that training begins with a good base of how to fall safely, but the clip that JW posted shows, what looks like guys just inches away from a broken neck...

[wiesiek]

nah,
i`ve been in tournament circuts couple of years
and anybody from my team experienced something really serious /bruises, simple dislocation and broken nails doesn`t count /
of course shit happens
but
most of the time :
- uke try to avoid throw for any cost - i broke my classmates elbows two times
- poorly conditioned body /ukemi allone don`t prepare your body sufficiently/

anyway
fighting is always risky buissnes even in "artificial" enviroment
so if you afraid...

[CaliG]

Anybody know how common serious injuries are in competitive judo? I know that training begins with a good base of how to fall safely, but the clip that JW posted shows, what looks like guys just inches away from a broken neck...

When you're talking about competition judo it's pretty common to have something break.

I'd look for a school that has a good teacher but is not completely focused on tournaments if you're concerned about injuries.

I love watching grappling tournaments but years ago I had to stop grappling because a judo competitor popped my shoulder in randoori and also around that time had the sack of fluid around my knee pop during a heel hook (lucky that was all that happened). I probably could have gone back after a few months, but I decided to wait a couple of years when I knew the injury was completely gone. I missed out on a lot but I have no regrets because those injuries are no longer an issue.

Of course when you do martial arts these will happen and I understand that but for me competition is out because the risk is a lot higher, as long as I'm making progress I'm happy. People got to do what they got to do to win, as Rhadi did in the judo clip. He probably could have held back but if he did the guy may have escaped (in judo if the guy getting armbarred can get to his feet the ref will re-start the action). I don't like it but that's the way it is in high level judo competitions.

[wiesiek]

sorry to hear that Greg
I never had "win or die" attitude and get very havy pure gimnastick backround before i atempted to fight,
+ i treated sport always as a fair game.
Mayby this and dash of the luck saved my ass.
There was always a lot of minor body problems /something more than bruisses /
but
when you try to get from the body as much as you can...

[CaliG]

sorry to hear that Greg
I never had "win or die" attitude and get very havy pure gimnastick backround before i atempted to fight,
+ i treated sport always as a fair game.
Mayby this and dash of the luck saved my ass.
There was always a lot of minor body problems /something more than bruisses /
but
when you try to get from the body as much as you can...

Czesc Wiesiek,

Thanks, but I have no regrets. The only regret I have is that I didn't do sambo/judo when I lived in Poland. If had known what Eastern European judo was like when I lived there I probably never would have left, but if I had never left I wouldn't have gone to China and if I hadn't gone to China...

That's how life is, you can't live with regrets.

Pozdrowenia.

Jason F, if something appeals to you in judo go and check it out. If injuries are a concern then you could always do Aikido, SC, Japanese Jujitsu, Sambo, even BJJ or any number of other arts where you learn throws but are less likely to get injured by them because these schools are usually less competitive than Olypmic striving judoka. Basically some schools have more injuries than others. Check it out and don't look back otherwise you'll never know.

Good times,

G

[wiesiek]

pozdro Greg

i think that kinda of "brutalization" of contemporary tournaments fight is directly connected with money.
In my judo time even olimpic level judoka didnt`t get payed well.
You get of course free gi and travels/hotels costs covered + some really small purse
and if you win big tournament there was the price,
but
it was really nothing if you compare even the lowest monthty payment in basketball...

right now we are in different era...


best

[everything]

found out tonight from one of my teachers there has been a recent rule change so if you start twisting like this, the refs should halt the match immediately.