difference between PH and pummeling drills?

[mrtoes]

In my limited experience push hands has been typically from a medium range, i.e. starting in hand contact so no bridging from longer range, not really closing to very close range. Funnily enough I was thinking recently that it would be nice to close to pummelling range with my push hands and see where that goes. Sometimes I wonder what shouldn't be in push hands, technique wise.

[Ian]

I like the "minimum effort" or "4 oz" ideal, not because of judo or taiji but because there is always someone stronger and it's easy to gas.

It's useful, but only part of the solution. You can't use "4 oz" against a schoolbus.

[bailewen]

Sure you can.

Just apply it to the steering wheel. If there's no power steering then 4 oz. on either the gas of brakes should have an effect.

[Ian]

you know what I mean

[cdobe]

When the schoolbus is balancing on the edge of a cliff, you can push it with 4 oz. And that's the point. Because you can do as many systema pushups as you want and further develop your scary knuckles , you won't be able to move the schoolbus either.

CD

[Ian]

When the schoolbus is balancing on the edge of a cliff, you can push it with 4 oz. And that's the point.

you worry me, man

you won't be able to move the schoolbus either.

well you can get out of the way...

ps. my knuckles are naturally like that!

[cdobe]

ps. my knuckles are naturally like that!

Sorry, Ian. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were a freak or something. It was meant as an appreciatory remark. Your fists looked strong and like they're forming a nice surface to hit with. No need to wear gloves all summer

CD

[GrahamB]

I demand to see this picture of Ian's knuckles so I can judge for myself!

[Ian]

Sorry, Ian. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were a freak or something.

I know, I didn't take offense

Graham, why post pics of yourself even if you're crap?

[GrahamB]

Were you naked in the photo you sent to Chris? That's the vibe I'm getting....

[neijia_boxer]

the difference between pummeling and push hands is that in pummeling- alot of aggressive strength is being used to get into superior positioning in a tie-up, clinch, or body lock. Pummeling is used to either get the superior position or avoid it. Pummeling uses the overhook/underhook transitiong to take someone to ground.
pummeling drill- black gets a body lock on the smaller guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suZl9WG7nq0

Push hands is much softer as many have said here with less strength and use of more skill to unbalance the opponet but not necessarily take them to the ground. Push hands deals with many principles and tends to answer aggression with stick, adhere, neutralize, and follow. the 'follow' being a push, strike, fajing, takedown, ect.

[cdobe]

Were you naked in the photo you sent to Chris? That's the vibe I'm getting....

I guess this is called a projection in psychology

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3658&p=65028

CD

[Doc Stier]

I guess my take on "pummeling" is a bit different from some of you here.

When I was a young boy helping my German immigrant grandfather on his farm, he told me "You vill do ze chores I asked of you, und you vill like it, or else I vill 'pummel' you." It didn't take more than one memorable experience to understand what this meant.

Believe me when I say that these folks ran a strictly supervised farm operation.



Doc

[johnwang]

Pummeling uses the overhook/underhook...

The 抄(Chao) overhook and 圈(Quan) underhook are such an important principles and it should be part of the Taiji PH. There are many other important principles that should also be included in Taiji PH such as: 蓋(Gai) Cover Hands, 分(Fen) Separate hands, 掖(Ye) Hand clamping, 引(Yin) Guiding, 捧(Peng) Arm raising, 架(Jia) Elbow Locking, ...

[everything]

the difference between pummeling and push hands is that in pummeling- alot of aggressive strength is being used to get into superior positioning in a tie-up, clinch, or body lock. Pummeling is used to either get the superior position or avoid it. Pummeling uses the overhook/underhook transitiong to take someone to ground.
pummeling drill- black gets a body lock on the smaller guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suZl9WG7nq0

Push hands is much softer as many have said here with less strength and use of more skill to unbalance the opponet but not necessarily take them to the ground. Push hands deals with many principles and tends to answer aggression with stick, adhere, neutralize, and follow. the 'follow' being a push, strike, fajing, takedown, ect.

If ph is sort of a softer (and arguably better - depending on if 4 oz or minimum effort is desired) cousin of pummeling, I would say one should learn basic pummeling first if possible. Then getting more "subtle" makes sense.

"I'm gonna pummel you" sounds a lot more threatening than "I'm gonna push hands/fajin you", which sounds rather dorky. Full of dorkitude.