Training with Women

[DeusTrismegistus]

dont do it.

don't do what?

[everything]

we were training judo with eyes-closed once. some inappropriate, inadvertent touch happened. I don't think she was uncomfortable with it, though. Made me a little uncomfortable. no big, but a normal hazard, esp. in grappling.

[DeusTrismegistus]

we were training judo with eyes-closed once. some inappropriate, inadvertent touch happened. I don't think she was uncomfortable with it, though. Made me a little uncomfortable. no big, but a normal hazard, esp. in grappling.

Yea that does happen sometimes but if you take the time to build trust before that happens then its usually not an issue.

[Michael Babin]

I once had written an article for a Canadian taiji newsletter that was squashed at the last minute by an editorial committee because they deemed it sexist as I had suggested that women push-hands players wear chest protectors or plastic bras as a way of dealing with the close contact that can happen in such training or during competitions.

Wearing such protective clothing doesn't solve all the problems [at least in a taiji context] of unwanted intimacy to a woman's squishy bits; but it can help make both partners feel a little better about accidental contact and allows for the use of the chest as a pushing platform as would be done with a male partner. Unfortunately, a lot of women won't wear these for the same reasons that men won't wear athletic supports with or without a cup -- too uncomfortable for vigorous training unless you have an expensive, properly-fitted version.

I have always had relatively few female students over the years though there has also usually been at least one at any given time in the martial classes and these often make good students in the long-run. However, there's no doubt that some are just a pain and/or screw up the morale of the group that they are in. For example, some male students who work perfectly fine with other men also tend to "act-out" when dealing with women and that can furhter complicate a mixed class as can those women who show up just looking for new dating partners and then work their way through the men to their taste while the morale in that group goes down the toilet.

Unfortunately, in western countries, if you run public classes somewhere there is no way to legally exclude women. Even if you could, it wouldn't be fair to the those that want to train seriously.

In practical terms, if want to run boxercise classes, women will make an attractive addition to your profit-margin; if you want to train hard and with contact of any kind, then they become another issue complicating the training. But good training on a recreational level is always complicated by the need for standards and safety for the participants.

[gretel]

unfortunately for me, i don't get to train contact kung fu (and i'm probably too old to have fantasies of doing it). if i did, though, i'd hope the guys would have ian's attitude:

". . . decency, lack of ego, and just being aware of what your training partner needs, rather than on gender."

gretel

[GrahamB]

Gretel one of my students is a granny - don't give up hope!

[Dmitri]

Pushed-hands with many female partners, -- never even a hint of a problem.
No, one should not avoid even accidentally touching breast like a plague or like they're gonna burn your hands, but OTOH that also doesn't mean there shouldn't be any distinction from a guy IMHO... Some balancing is required I think, and what I came up with (in PH setting) for myself is that, since it has a very restrictive rule set and a specific goal so personally I add one more little "rule" for myself, -- to avoid, within reason, those two specific spots ... it's not that hard to do, it doesn't take away from the exercise, and also it's not a big deal if, god forbid, there's a terrible accident of occasional contact. It should be safe to presume that she's a big girl and is fully aware of such possibility going in to this sort of training.

When rolling in GJJ classes, there is also never any problem in that respect, even though the contact is much more pronounced and extends to areas other than breasts, compared to ("standard-issue fixed-step") PH... The rule set is also of course MUCH less restrictive...
It's just that there's never even a remote thought, no matter how "hot" they might be, of anything sexual -- you're working on something very specific, it's an MA class... IMO if you're having any sexual thoughts in a class/training setting (and you're not a virgin teenage boy ), you (general 'you') should probably be seeking some sort of counseling.

[Bhassler]

Echoing what others have already said...

If you're training for any kind of self defense, then most women should be aware that a potential attacker will most likely be a male who will not be playing nice, so from a martial context learning to deal with gender issues is a very real and important part of the training. Addressing it as such openly with all involved can take a lot of the weirdness away.

As a Pilates instructor I've touched many women of all ages in awkward fashion and it's never been an issue. Just have a strong focus and intent towards what you're meaning to accomplish and people pretty much go right along with it.


Edit: none of this addresses even remotely the fact that a 110 lb unarmed woman will most likely have no chance in any sort of physical altercation with a 220 lb. athletic male-- the point being that training may need to be altered due to physical stature, genetics etc, but that goes beyond the present discussion of not touching the girly bits.

[Dmitri]

Edit: none of this addresses even remotely the fact that a 110 lb unarmed woman will most likely have no chance in any sort of physical altercation with a 220 lb. athletic male-- the point being that training may need to be altered due to physical stature, genetics etc, but that goes beyond the present discussion of not touching the girly bits.

Situational awareness is #1 IMHO... BJJ (at a good/high level, not just "Oh yeah, I did some of that for a couple months...") is a close second, as it might actually end up providing an edge, even in case of the aforementioned weight ratio. But that's another thread.

[yusuf]

Unfortunately, in western countries, if you run public classes somewhere there is no way to legally exclude women. Even if you could, it wouldn't be fair to the those that want to train seriously.

My old tacher had a very interestign way of dealing with this. Some newbs turned up one day, including a coule of hotties. He decided that class would be doing two hours of dipping dragon, low, ase scraping the ground, holding each transition posture for ten seconds. Never saw any of them again ..


bloody swine

[Interloper]

Most women I know wear some type of sport bra when they train, and believe me, those things are NOT conducive to actual breast contact. They're made of thick, elastic fabric that is like a trampoline. Guy accidentally bumps against the woman's chest and -boing!- his hand gets bounced back.

Seriously, any focused and sincere female MA student understands that physical contact with her is a given, and it may sometimes be to the chest since it's right there in the line of traffic. Just as there may be an accidental contact with the guy's genitals (which is why guys wear cups).

My advice is to treat everyone neutrally and equally, but don't pretend that boobs (and nuts) don't exist; use due care.

Pushed-hands with many female partners, -- never even a hint of a problem.
No, one should not avoid even accidentally touching breast like a plague or like they're gonna burn your hands, but OTOH that also doesn't mean there shouldn't be any distinction from a guy IMHO... Some balancing is required I think, and what I came up with (in PH setting) for myself is that, since it has a very restrictive rule set and a specific goal so personally I add one more little "rule" for myself, -- to avoid, within reason, those two specific spots ... it's not that hard to do, it doesn't take away from the exercise, and also it's not a big deal if, god forbid, there's a terrible accident of occasional contact. It should be safe to presume that she's a big girl and is fully aware of such possibility going in to this sort of training.

When rolling in GJJ classes, there is also never any problem in that respect, even though the contact is much more pronounced and extends to areas other than breasts, compared to ("standard-issue fixed-step") PH... The rule set is also of course MUCH less restrictive...
It's just that there's never even a remote thought, no matter how "hot" they might be, of anything sexual -- you're working on something very specific, it's an MA class... IMO if you're having any sexual thoughts in a class/training setting (and you're not a virgin teenage boy ), you (general 'you') should probably be seeking some sort of counseling.

[downwardspiral]

train with women, pretty ones anyway.it costs too much. "stay away from sharp swords & pretty girls"

[Kurt Robbins]

I hurt one girls arm doing a Kimura and broke anothers nose with a knee. Accidents happen and with the few women I have trained with, I found they were on par with men, as in they either excelled or didn't.

[roger hao]

Capoeria is the place for hot women - we have all seen the Samba clips from Capoeria.

As far as touching breasts is concerned - I really feel uncomfortable when they get your
head in between them and then whack them back and forth.

[BonesCom]

It all depends, it seems like you get two types in MA classes, the boxercise types and the serious people. I popped a serious chic in the tit once and it wasn't a problem, actually worked out pretty good, it seems they are quite sensitive With the other types I've never gotten close, they're are too hesitant and never come back