Internal Striking?

[Ian]

So who here has experienced what they would consider genuine internal striking?

I'm not talking about short power that seemingly comes out of nowhere and seems to have a delayed 'explosion' effect...

...but a strike where the guy brushes you gently and you experience any of a wide range of sensations, including nausea, a surge of energy etc.

You know - something like Alex Kozma describes in that documentary with Chen yun san.

I haven't experienced this.

[Bao]

Actually, you ask two different qusetions. One is about what people consider "genuine internal striking". And then you ask about one specific method.

Do you mean that only this method should be considered genuine internal striking?

[Ian]

yes.

[Michael Babin]

I experienced what was described as short power many times from my first martial taiji teacher Allan Weiss and many years later from Erle Montaigue at a variety of workshops. By the way, "short power" or whatever you call it is particularly 'creepy" the first time you get a taste of the real thing as opposed to the nonsense that some teachers try to sell to people who can't punch and won't put in the hard work to learn how. It shouldn't have to depend on the recipient holding a pad or telephone book in an awkward manner and standing in a way that practically invites being destabilized by any impact.

I've been knocked out twice by Erle Montaigue at demonstrations in which he used relatively light strikes to the throat and head and the head strike was accompanied by nausea and very weird sensations. The neck strike didn't hurt but the head one certainly did momentarily and then afterwards for a day or so ... not experiences that I would repeat voluntarily.

"Strange" internal power from William C.C. Chen. At a workshop in Montreal in the early 90s, to told me to push him hard and fast [I was twice his weight at the time] and he didn't move and I got the strangest feeling in my elbows as if those joints had had electric shocks. Never experienced that again with anyone else.

At a push-hands open-house, I saw a short older Chinese Wu-style practitioner take the workshop "asshole" [every such gathering always seems to have at least one!} who kept pushing too aggressively, sneaking kicks in and trying sucker-type punches and without appearing to move much, deflect an attack to send the asshole flying the width of the room into a stack of bricks. The resulting mess was very satisfactory for anyone who had worked with Mr. Sphincter that morning and tried to stay within the house rules. The Wu-stylist who was about a foot shorter than his victim just smiled when asked about what had happened by those who hadn't seen the exchange.

[Bao]

ok then, I respect your view.

In my world, a strike is only a strike if it can make real damage. Wierd sensations can be caused by many things, even your own psyche when it has hard to cope with a new kind of experience. A light palm touch on the chest can cause wierd sensations. I had a teacher who had a very "wierd" touch. But that was a long time ago, so I don't want to make any conclusions. Earlier I was very impressed by things like this. But now I don't know anymore. If it isn't martially useful it isn't worth anything. I am much more impressed by people creating real strikes out of nowhere, without appearent effort, but it feels like lightning struck down, a strike that need very good protections and still it hurts like hell. I call that internal striking.

[Dmitri]

I am much more impressed by people creating real strikes out of nowhere, without appearent effort, in a fully non-cooperative setting, but it feels like lightning struck down, a strike that need very good protections and still it hurts like hell. I call that internal striking.

Fixed.

[RobP2]

I don't think a strike has to damage to be effective. It can destroy your structure, wind you, make you "stop and think" (as Mikhail says) or all sorts of other effects. I think of that more as internal striking - oh and exploding the liver of course

[Darthwing Teorist]

At a push-hands open-house, I saw a short older Chinese Wu-style practitioner take the workshop "asshole" [every such gathering always seems to have at least one!} who kept pushing too aggressively, sneaking kicks in and trying sucker-type punches and without appearing to move much, deflect an attack to send the asshole flying the width of the room into a stack of bricks. The resulting mess was very satisfactory for anyone who had worked with Mr. Sphincter that morning and tried to stay within the house rules. The Wu-stylist who was about a foot shorter than his victim just smiled when asked about what had happened by those who hadn't seen the exchange.

I think that I heard about that one. Did the guy's ankle got broken?

and exploding the liver of course

Alcohol can achieve the same effect.

[DeusTrismegistus]

So who here has experienced what they would consider genuine internal striking?

I'm not talking about short power that seemingly comes out of nowhere and seems to have a delayed 'explosion' effect...

...but a strike where the guy brushes you gently and you experience any of a wide range of sensations, including nausea, a surge of energy etc.

You know - something like Alex Kozma describes in that documentary with Chen yun san.

I haven't experienced this.

I haven't experienced nausea but I have experienced real internal striking. Not sure what you are calling a surge of energy either or what you mean by a delayed explosion.

[martialartist]

you mean "magic"?

[roger hao]

One Monday the shaman Don Juan knocked Carlos Castenada into the next Wednesday.
Is this what you are referring to?
I have to wonder and subsequently ask those that 'feel' and attach attributes to strikes internal or external.
What is your baseline or frame of reference?
Have you been knocked the F out?
Have you been kicked by a horse?
Have you been struck by a violently swung baseball bat or club?
Have you been struck by a moving vehicle?

[bigphatwong]

Short answer: yes, I've experienced it. However, since it probably won't jibe with a lot of people's notions about what is in the realm of possibility with regards to CMA, I'd rather not discuss it here.

If you're interested, PM me.

[Bhassler]

I was standing under a tree that got hit by lightning. That was pretty weird. It sucked.

[Ian]

ok then, I respect your view.

Not really man

I just have no interest in discussing "what is internal". I realise I could've worded the initial question better, but moving along...

In my world, a strike is only a strike if it can make real damage. Wierd sensations can be caused by many things, even your own psyche when it has hard to cope with a new kind of experience. A light palm touch on the chest can cause wierd sensations. I had a teacher who had a very "wierd" touch. But that was a long time ago, so I don't want to make any conclusions. Earlier I was very impressed by things like this. But now I don't know anymore. If it isn't martially useful it isn't worth anything. I am much more impressed by people creating real strikes out of nowhere, without appearent effort, but it feels like lightning struck down, a strike that need very good protections and still it hurts like hell. I call that internal striking.

Context - I've been hit by strikes from zero distance that felt like explosions inside, but I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about strikes that rely on seemingly very light touches, yet still do damage.

I could show you a video (Chen Yunsan and Alex Kozma doing tuishou) but the video has been removed. You know the one I'm talking about?

Again, I have never experienced anything like this, so naturally I'm skeptical.

edit: If my posts appear muddled, it's because I'm having a difficult time intellectualising this stuff.

[Dmitri]

Here's one description of exactly what you're talking about Ian:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-66pC3 ... e#PPA19,M1