Hugging the chee ball

[Sprint]

The proof I have is in my own results as well as those of my teacher and other teachers I know who have done the same practice. The results of the studies that I read are very much in line with the bone marrow & tendon changing methods of shaolin as well as verbal theory passed on to me concerning the results of the vibrations on the body when one practices standing.

On earth one will inevitably lose bone density with age yet I know some guys in their early 70's who have done the standing practice and do not seem to have lost any yet.

But the only way to really find out for one's self is to do the practice.

This is not proof, this is hearsay. I do the practice but I have not heard of any study that backs up what you say, which is why I am asking. What studies have you read?

[shawnsegler]

you guys need to switch to decaf.

S

[TaoJoannes]

And stay out of the haterade.

Is your internet provider hateT&T?

The ghost of goebbels called, he wants his hate back.

I dunno, I got nothing.

[Chanchu]

"Wouldn't say it gives one more striking power. It helps the body to be connected so that instead of hitting with a fist and arm that weighs maybe 10 - 20 lbs. you have the weight and mass of the whole body behind it. Also instead of having to do a large movement in order to build up speed and momentum zhan zhuang practice helps one to develop the ability to issue the same amount of power in a small movement."

I think it does John, I mean tendon work does- you are loading the tendons for long (or short) periods to get the desired results- tendons can be developed and trained. They play a big roll in force generation - well, more like power 'transmission' but there has been a lot of research on that recently, so we now know they do a hellvalot more than connect muscle to bone in western science based physiology. And thats the reason IMO that the old guys could generate such amazing power at short distance.

[jjy5016]

Sprint it's only heresay until you meet and feel someone who's done the practice. I can't remember which studies I read. I just googled something like vibrations, bones & mice and got a shitload of results. I'm 99% sure that you aren't doing standing the way I do so it's useless to argue the subject.

Chanchu perhaps you are right and I just don't look at it from that perspective. But I would say that as far as power generation is concerned there are many more factors than just how strong one's tendons are. But that's a whole other can of worms.

[Sprint]

Sprint it's only heresay until you meet and feel someone who's done the practice. I can't remember which studies I read. I just googled something like vibrations, bones & mice and got a shitload of results. I'm 99% sure that you aren't doing standing the way I do so it's useless to argue the subject..

You can tell someones bone density just by touching them? How? And exactly what has bone density to do with skill in Yiquan? The reason I questioned your statements is because you laid them out like they were cast in stone facts, when in truth they are nothing of the kind.

As for meeting someone who has done the practice - does meeting Yao Chengguang count?

[jjy5016]

Well I guess people have been lying to me for the past several years when telling me that they could feel the hardness and weight of my bones when pushing hands.

Bone density has nothing to do with skill in yiquan. It has everything to do with power and the ability to deliver it though. The statements I made with regard to the subject are common knowlege in traditional yiquan. Perhaps you haven't been exposed to much of it.

You say that you met Yao Chengguang. How many times? So you don't study with him on a regular basis? There's quite a difference in "meeting" someone and being his regular student.

Just who / where are you getting your yiquan knowlege from? Books, videos, internet E-Books?

[Sprint]

Almost any weight bearing exercise will have a positive effect on bone density, but according to you this is the main point of zhan zhuang - no it isn't.

"Well I guess people have been lying to me for the past several years when telling me that they could feel the hardness and weight of my bones when pushing hands." Maybe they were just trying to be kind to you. You know when you touch hands with Yao he feels really quite light - unstoppable - but light. In any event, what you describe has absolutely nothing to do with bone density. Obviously if you have some form of pathological condition such as osteoporosis then you are extremely limited in what physical exercise you are capable of. But for everyone else it is taken for granted that normal bone density is perfectly adequate. You don't need some extra level of bone density to do yi quan that is just plain wrong, so your contention that bone density has somehow got everything to do with the ability to deliver power is nonsense.

In an attempt to give you the benefit of the doubt, some classical texts refer to "condensing the bone marrow" or squeezing the bones", but this does NOT (in Yiquan) mean increasing bone density. What it actually refers to is using the core muscles - something which zhan zhuang does develop. Actually the point of zhan zhuang is to develop orchestrated use of the core muscles (in case anyone still cares) and has F. All to do with bone density.

[jjy5016]

I don't recall saying that increasing bone density was the main point of zhan zhuang. As I stated previously you apparently don't know the type of zhan zhuang that I practice. And no one has been kind to me. I've earned my respect.

I really don't care what master Yao feels like as his yiquan training is quite different from mine. You claim to know something about yiquan so I'll ask you again who do you study with? Or is it that you've mastered the system already and are coming to these conclusions on your own?

Stating that the point of zhan zhuang is for the development of core muscles shows that your main teacher is probably information from free ebooks and magazine articles that have been going around forever.

[Mike Strong]

Sprint,

John has asked you a very simple, straight forward question: WHO DO YOU STUDY WITH ?

Yi Quan is a very small family of practioneers, and even if we have not all met, we are all aware of each other's clans.

John is aware of my teacher, and I am aware of John's teacher. We do a lot of the same things for the same reasons, and there a some things we do differently, ...


... I hope to meet John and compare notes!

So please, - where are you getting your information ?

Mike Strong

[redmund2905]

Sprint,

John has asked you a very simple, straight forward question: WHO DO YOU STUDY WITH ?

Yi Quan is a very small family of practioneers, and even if we have not all met, we are all aware of each other's clans.

John is aware of my teacher, and I am aware of John's teacher. We do a lot of the same things for the same reasons, and there a some things we do differently, ...


... I hope to meet John and compare notes!

So please, - where are you getting your information ?

Mike Strong

One would think that someone called "Sprint" would be faster in answering. BTW, John and I study with the same teacher.

[jjy5016]

Well Redmund2905 at least he was quick to disagree.

But then again the originator of the thread doesn't seem to have had too much faith in the practice so all of these written words might be a waste of time.

I'm just so tired of people claiming to know about zhan zhuang & yiquan who could'nt even be considered beginners in said practices.

The "second course of yiquan" experts who learn "tools" to help them develop their skills in a matter of days going on to develop on their own and the video watching, internet researching, correspondence course subscribing practitioners who believe themselves experts in what yiquan and zhan zhuang practice are for really piss me off. They mislead people and are no better than the McDojo owners who claim to be imparting something valueable to their contract signing students.

[JustinCobb]

The "second course of yiquan" experts who learn "tools" to help them develop their skills in a matter of days going on to develop on their own and the video watching, internet researching, correspondence course subscribing practitioners who believe themselves experts in what yiquan and zhan zhuang practice are for really piss me off. They mislead people and are no better than the McDojo owners who claim to be imparting something valueable to their contract signing students.

I really think you're being overly judgmental.

[Mike Strong]

My one and only student is Las Vegas worked hard and stood, ( at least when he was at my house ) ...

... but he could never get the hang of meditation, I mean, he could close his eyes and stand, or sit, or lay down like a corpse, but he could just never get to that "sweet spot" ...

... and he would say, "I just can't wrap my head around this stuff".

He went to Finland and spent a couple of months living with T-Bone, ( or whatever that guy's name is ) AND
HE LOVED IT !!!


He came back and said he now realizes that what I was teaching was soild gold ( especialy The Tibetan Bowing Board ), but ...


... the guy's brain just isn't hooked up in a way to get the goods in the way they were/are being offered from the likes of me and my teacher.

The Second Course folks get a bit snooty about what they do, as opposed to what we do, ( especailly on-line)- but at the end of the day, I really don't give a rat's ass what other's think about my practice.

[Ian]

What's The Second Course and who's T Bone?

Thanks for all the good replies so far. I have something to think about.

So I have to think.