Tom wrote:I'd like to interject another possible element that may come into play with an "internal" strike--the effect on the opponent's nervous system, not just pain, but reflexive response as well. Discussion often tends to focus on biomechanical leverage and momentum transfer--which are important but don't necessarily describe the complete interaction with the opponent, whose neuromuscular response to contact is a fairly immediate component of his overall response. Nerve plexi, pressure points, etc. need to be considered for a complete description of internal striking--not just the generation of power by the striker, but the opponent's response to the strike.
The status of energy is of special interest. In general in communicational systems, we deal with sequences which re semble stimulus-and-response rather than cause-and-effect. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is an energy transfer such that the motion of the second ball is energized by the impact of the first. In communicational systems, on the other hand, the energy of the response is usually provided by the respondent. If I kick a dog, his immediately sequential behavior is energized by his metabolism, not by my kick. Similarly, when one neuron fires another, or an impulse from a microphone activates a circuit, the sequent event has its own energy sources.
yusuf wrote:Gregory Bateson put it this way ..The status of energy is of special interest. In general in communicational systems, we deal with sequences which re semble stimulus-and-response rather than cause-and-effect. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is an energy transfer such that the motion of the second ball is energized by the impact of the first. In communicational systems, on the other hand, the energy of the response is usually provided by the respondent. If I kick a dog, his immediately sequential behavior is energized by his metabolism, not by my kick. Similarly, when one neuron fires another, or an impulse from a microphone activates a circuit, the sequent event has its own energy sources.
yusuf wrote:Tom wrote:I'd like to interject another possible element that may come into play with an "internal" strike--the effect on the opponent's nervous system, not just pain, but reflexive response as well. Discussion often tends to focus on biomechanical leverage and momentum transfer--which are important but don't necessarily describe the complete interaction with the opponent, whose neuromuscular response to contact is a fairly immediate component of his overall response. Nerve plexi, pressure points, etc. need to be considered for a complete description of internal striking--not just the generation of power by the striker, but the opponent's response to the strike.
well said Tom...Gregory Bateson put it this way ..The status of energy is of special interest. In general in communicational systems, we deal with sequences which re semble stimulus-and-response rather than cause-and-effect. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is an energy transfer such that the motion of the second ball is energized by the impact of the first. In communicational systems, on the other hand, the energy of the response is usually provided by the respondent. If I kick a dog, his immediately sequential behavior is energized by his metabolism, not by my kick. Similarly, when one neuron fires another, or an impulse from a microphone activates a circuit, the sequent event has its own energy sources.
btw thanks wtq.. i'll try that one
Walk the Torque wrote: To play devils advocate for a minute though, this could be turned on its head. There has been heaps of research and incredible results from certain types physical therapies that require extremely light touches. With these light touch techniques it is stated, significant change can be brought about to the fascia, and muscular-skeletal systems. The argument put forward by some of these practitioners is that any more pressure than the lightest of touches can elicit the "body's" protective responses; so that the intended therapeutic technique is blocked or diminished. If this is true, then it could follow that if we do not set off the body's "alarm systems", a more subtle and potentially more penetrating application of "force" could be possible.
yusuf wrote:i think cranio sacral is one, feldenkrais also has this in functional integration
I-mon wrote:Conn can you dig up any links to research on these physical therapies using light touch? I'd be very interested to read anything on the topic.
dtactics wrote:Walk the Torque wrote: To play devils advocate for a minute though, this could be turned on its head. There has been heaps of research and incredible results from certain types physical therapies that require extremely light touches. With these light touch techniques it is stated, significant change can be brought about to the fascia, and muscular-skeletal systems. The argument put forward by some of these practitioners is that any more pressure than the lightest of touches can elicit the "body's" protective responses; so that the intended therapeutic technique is blocked or diminished. If this is true, then it could follow that if we do not set off the body's "alarm systems", a more subtle and potentially more penetrating application of "force" could be possible.
Bingo! You've figured out the "magic" to Systema's strikes... at least one of the main ingredients.
Walk the Torque wrote:I must say though, I can't agree that a lack of scientific evidence automatically means that the mechanism is psychological.
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