Shaolin For Health, Tai Chi For Fighting

[cerebus]

So, when I was younger, in my 20s and early to mid 30s, I basically concentrated on training my Shaolin and Northern Mantis for developing fighting ability and used Tai Chi simply as a relaxing health practice. These days I find that my Tai Chi practice is far more relevant and efficient for fighting, while my old Shaolin Eight Postures training set is excellent for maintaining strength and health. Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

[GrahamB]

Yes!

Weird, isn't it?

I'm beginning to think that the shaolin stuff I do (mainly CLF these days) is more and more important the older you get. I think John Wang said something similar on another thread recently about push ups and sit ups being more important the older you got.

I think also the Tai Chi becomes more and more about refining something. When you're young you haven't got anything to refine yet

[neijia_boxer]

I think it was Chen Pan Ling that started the argument about Tai chi being pretty ineffective unless you learn some kind of Shaolin or External style.

Even Yang Lu chan and most the early Pakua people had learned some kind of external style Shaolin like Red Fist, Lohanquan, shaui jou before graduating to an internal style. You already know that.

At one Pakua school I went to, (and what I do with my pakua group in the park) a time after warm ups and basic practice is to do 15 minutes of other forms you have learned. One guy does his Shaolin forms, I do Long fist, another guy does his Tien shan Pai, another Mantis, ect.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

from the shaolin (sil lum) I was taught:

nei gong
ba duan jin
yi jin jing
6 healing breaths
zhanzhuang

This with hard qigong as a combined set (part martial part health) and individual gongs as well is what I use on a regular basis over the last 15 years. It's good stuff. I play Yang style as well, push regularly and do a lot of "western" stuff as well.

It's all good.

[Fubo]

I think it depends on the school you train at... Some internal arts schools give you just as vigorous a work out as shaolin type schools. If you look at the Fu style bagua/taiji full training regime, there's a lot of range between hard/soft, fast/slow etc... with a full range of very physically demanding conditioning drills.

[everything]

fascinating. never did shaolin but i do feel the need for more "external" exercise now, and taiji seems relatively more practical.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

In upholding the law of the fist methods, one will find themselves an old man, outstanding from the rest...

[Jeice]

I started in karate, then found taiji about 10 years later...
I've found people doing just hard stuff get too stiff and break down, and people who just do the internal get the "pile of noodles" complex... Yin and Yang for the win?
Barring that, I guess I just like a little hard with my soft... and vice versa.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I like to put my hard into her soft.

That almost always works out for me.

*threadjack...easy on the jack, heavy on the thread*

[cerebus]

Though many people talk about not being relaxed to the point of being a "limp noodle", I find that the more "limp noodly" I can be in sparring, the more effective I am. I've been reading Peter Ralston's work "Cheng Hsin, The Principles of Effortless Power" and working with one of my first Bagua instructors who was an instructor at Ralston's school back in the 70s. He says that Ralston would sometimes fight with his hands dangling at his sides, completely relaxed, all "limp noodly" and would still just beat the crap out of his opponent. Ralston's writings are all about relaxation together with correct alignments and using gravity to sort of "fall" into one's stepping or movements, using as little tension or muscle contraction as humanly possible. I've found this to be a very efficient method of movement in all things.

That's one of the reasons I enjoy the Cheng Man Ching style of Tai Chi so much. It meshes perfectly with Ralston's teachings and really develops total relaxation in my martial movement. I enjoy practicing the Shaolin mainly because it develops some serious lower body strength and I enjoy a good, strenuous workout from time to time...

[Fubo]

using gravity to sort of "fall" into one's stepping or movements

Great point... this was the 1st thing i learn't in my 1st bagua class on bagua walking. People naturally fall into their step as soon as their center of gravity moves past their base, but one of bagua's great training methods is to allow one to consciously generate and control power through the use of gravity and momentum.

[cerebus]

This idea was also used to great effect by Jack Dempsey...

[Fubo]

Yes, "Championship Fighting" is a great book.

[shawnsegler]

Troy: Yeah, My old teacher up in the North Bay- Don Rubbo is a huge advocate of Shaolin and Taiji as a yin and yang combo like that, and most of the peeps from that lineage are way more healthy than most taiji people I know.

If you can do tantui into your old age and taiji to work the internal stuff, you will be a healthy mofo.

S

[bailewen]

...Yeah, My old teacher up in the North Bay- Don Rubbo is a huge advocate of Shaolin and Taiji as a yin and yang combo like that...

Yeah, my current teacher up in the Northwest (of China) is a huge advocate of Baji and Taiji as a yin and yang combo like that...