Zhan Zhuang as Fight Training

[Juan]

Are you planning on doing any cardio at all? This is a really interesting experiment and wish you the very best.

[Sprint]

LOL! Actually winning in ANY circumstance only shows that your opponent was less well prepared than you. The more prepared fighter usually wins, unless his opponent gets in a lucky shot. The question is, does my 26 years of experience in full contact fighting combined with Zhan Zhuang and Tai Chi training make me better prepared than my opponent?

Maybe the Hatton Pacquiao fight showed that talent and skill has something to do with it. But OK I was assuming you did not have much fight experience. My mistake.

[cerebus]

Maybe the Hatton Pacquiao fight showed that talent and skill has something to do with it. But OK I was assuming you did not have much fight experience. My mistake.

Not a problem. I tend to see talent and skill as being part of preparation. No one is born with these, though they may have been born with such natural abilities as coordination, timing, etc which are easily channeled into fighting ability.

I look at fighting in competitive matches in much the same ways as Shooter (Bruce), as a laboratory for experimentation. I'm not too worried about losing. If I do, I do. I've lost matches before, and so far I have yet to receive any injury more serious than a bloody nose or some jammed toes, oh wait, one time I had some torn cartilege between my ribs, but that was from landing on my opponent after a throw gone wrong. But generally I can keep myself from getting injured, so I don't see it as being horribly dangerous.

At the moment I have zero cardio. I'm still debating whether I want to see what it's like to do this without specific cardio training. I would never recommend to another person that they enter a full contact fight without plenty of cardio training beforehand, but I notice that if I just stay entirely relaxed, then I don't get too winded, even without cardio training. Of course that's just sparring with friends, not someone trying to knock me out, but I'd be interested to see if I could make it work against against someone who IS trying to knock me out.

[johnwang]

I'm still debating whether I want to see what it's like to do this without specific cardio training.

If you can proof that you can enter a full contact San Shou tournament without "cardio" training and only with the "ZZ" training then you will rewrite the CMA history forever.

[cerebus]

I'm still debating whether I want to see what it's like to do this without specific cardio training.

If you can proof that you can enter a full contact San Shou tournament without "cardio" training and only with the "ZZ" training then you will rewrite the CMA history forever.

Heh, heh, yeah wouldn't that be awesome!

Don't worry, I fully realize the difficulty of doing that, but I am curious about whether or not it could be done. I've heard instructors say that if one (theoretically) can remain completely relaxed in the midst of combat, they should be able to defeat an opponent without getting out of breath. If I do try it, it will be just to get first-hand experience of how far relaxation can (and cannot) go in reference to not getting winded.

[Strange]

We will need to evolve PH forward into "kick, punch, lock, throw, follow on strike integration". We just can't afford to evolve PH backward into "solo ZZ"

just to say for the record - i do not think yq hold this view; and neither does lhbf

[fuga]

So this is what your fight might look like.



Why not continue your ZZ, but also get your cardio up to par? You can still test your experiment of completely relaxing in the fight. Who says you have to have shitty cardio to be able to relax? I actually think the better cardio you have the deeper you will be able to relax. But it sounds like you have overlapping goals. Are you planning on proofing taiji-style relaxation or ZZ?

[cerebus]

So this is what your fight might look like.



Why not continue your ZZ, but also get your cardio up to par? You can still test your experiment of completely relaxing in the fight. Who says you have to have shitty cardio to be able to relax? I actually think the better cardio you have the deeper you will be able to relax. But it sounds like you have overlapping goals. Are you planning on proofing taiji-style relaxation or ZZ?

Damn! I knew Aaron (the fighter in the white t-shirt). He was a member of the Rats. He was actually killed in a hit-and-run on his motorcycle late last year (or maybe it was early this year). Thanks for posting that Pete. That was actually probably the tamest fight I've ever seen at a Rats event. The people in the ring are usually trying to knock each other out, and it's usually pretty bloody...

Anyway, as for my goals, I see my Zhan Zhuang as just being a part of my Tai Chi training, so there isn't really a split between them for me.

[cerebus]

So, while having a short workout with Fuga earlier today, we were discussing training and fighting and I decided that together with doing Zhan Zhuang, my Tai Chi form, and 2-person work with him and Tastydurian, and hopefully Fong & Qiflow if they ever get out here to help me, I'm also going to make sure my cardio is up to par. And then... well maybe I'll see if I can manifest my "Chai Tea" in the ring on June 20th...

[fuga]

well played, my friend

[bustr]

QFT

Just to add a little to this; the more one practices the less easy it is for someone to take you down.

I'd really like to know more about this. I stand as a part of my workout and I've heard that it helped in resisting takedowns.

[CaliG]

QFT

Just to add a little to this; the more one practices the less easy it is for someone to take you down.

I'd really like to know more about this. I stand as a part of my workout and I've heard that it helped in resisting takedowns.

It does. There was a time I was standing for hours a day and doing judo.

Sometimes when guys would try to throw me they'd just fall straight down. I believe it was in large part because my alignments were good and my body was relaxed so my body felt like dead weight and heavier than they anticipated.

As far as someone wondering if they should do standing for combat I'd say do standing because you like it, once you set a goal with expectations you're likely to be disappointed. In my mind things like standing, qigong and the slow form is something where the results are subtle and it takes years to really reap the rewards.

I remember Master Li Tai Liang saying that a Xingyi team he was on or training (this was through a translator and some details were a little fuzzy) were invited to go up against an Yiquan team descended from WXZ. The results were that the traditional Xingyi players bested the Yiquan guys each time. This convinced Master Li that although standing is useful it shouldn't be the main core of one's training.

Of course a fight is between two individuals, it's never truly style vs. style. But I think you'll find that a lot of CMA old timers out there will have a similar opinion to just standing.

[bustr]

Thanks CaliG. I think I'll put more emphasis on it now.

[johnwang]

Being able to resist take down is good but being able to take down the other is even better. We need to have a balance between both training.

[Ian]

I'm still debating whether I want to see what it's like to do this without specific cardio training.

If you can proof that you can enter a full contact San Shou tournament without "cardio" training and only with the "ZZ" training then you will rewrite the CMA history forever.

I once went a year without cardio just as an experiment and I never gassed out during sparring at that time.

Not that I had amazing cardio, I just never got to the point of over-exertion because I was working on breathing and relaxation.