Zhan Zhuang as Fight Training

[DeusTrismegistus]

I remember a discussion on time dilation but I think it was on the old board before the split, i don't recall a recent NLP thread but I do remember it was brought up a couple times about a year ago.

I don't recall any discussion on variations of lucid dreaming or diagnostic metaphor.

So would you mind elaborating on those two? Another thread perhaps?


On topic.

When I practice standing meditation regularly it helps my sparring practice in a lot of ways. Not really sure how to quantify it though but I believe it is all on the mental side of the equation for the most part.

[Chris McKinley]

Deus,

I'm not interested in going into a huge volume of detail on those topics right now, since I have a Cinco de Mayo thing to go to tonight, but I'll cover them generally.

Lucid dreaming technically happens when you are asleep, not in trance. However, a variation of it where you have even more cognitive awareness and control can be done while in trance. You could say it's a bit like letting your mind wander, only with a specific theme or idea in mind. That technique can be used to explore specific combat scenarios, active imaging practice, etc.

Diagnostic metaphors are visual abstract images that you let your mind create to represent whatever it is that's to be evaluated....health, pain, posture, a given technique, etc. It's used in conjunction with submodalities from NLP to identify how you represent progress, healing, etc.

The time perception dilation is very useful in learning to calm the mind and amplify effortless focus. Also very useful for diagnosing and active imaging.

[jjy5016]

Most of my standing practice is geared towards power development and technique but sometimes I do something that soundes like what Mr. McKinley is talking about.

Sometimes I'll do wuji zhuang standing and use the self hypnosis procedure to put myself into a deep relaxation which puts me in a place between consciousness and being asleep. I'll stay in it for a while and then switch to a combat zhuang and see how long I can maintain the highly relaxed state. Really does wonders for the rest of my practice.

[ashe]

So if talking about Wang and his students, and results they got, you should talk about yiquan/dachengquan as a whole system, and not just about zhan zhuang.

QFT

[Josealb]

Well, Wang was a xingyiquan monster already, so nobody beat his "new" born martial art. surprise surprise. What? you call that cheating? Cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Ho Ho Ho.

Its been a looong day.

[Wanderingdragon]

If you talk about Wang and his students, you don't talk about Yiquan you talk about the foundation that the thoughtless repsponses of Yiquan are built upon. Yiquan is not ZZ it is the myriads of technique that have been developed to an intrinsic level, this is to be so full you are empty, form that is formless.

[cerebus]

Well, I'm not thinking of someone going from having no training and doing just Zhan Zhuang. I'm thinking specifically of myself. I've been training in Hsing-I, Bagua ,Tai Chi and Zhan Zhuang since 2002. But I've always spent more time working other aspects of training, such as forms and sparring, and not doing as much Zhan Zhuang as I probably should have. Now these days I'm not doing much else EXCEPT Zhan Zhuang, and occasionally my Tai Chi form & maybe sparring once in awhile with Tastydurian and Fuga.

I'm basically wondering what people's thoughts, suggestions and ideas are regarding concentrating mostly on Zhan Zhuang training for a couple of months and then fighting a competetive match. Some people seem to feel that Zhan Zhuang can really be a great training method for combat if one already has a solid base in the internal arts and fighting.

[johnwang]

I'm basically wondering what people's thoughts, suggestions and ideas are regarding concentrating mostly on Zhan Zhuang training for a couple of months.

If you

- have partner then you should spar, wrestle, and work on 2 men drills.
- don't have partner then you should train with your equipment.
- don't have partner or equipment then you should train your solo drills.
- don't have partner, equipment, space, and when you are locked in your jail cell then you should train your ZZ.

- Running is better than walking.
- Walking is better than standing.
- Standing is better than sitting.
- Sitting is better than laying down.
- Laying down is better than dead.

[bigphatwong]

If you

- have partner then you should spar, wrestle, and work on 2 men drills.
- don't have partner then you should train with your equipment.
- don't have partner or equipment then you should train your solo drills.
- don't have partner, equipment, space, and when you are locked in your jail cell then you should train your ZZ.

I did lots of zhan zhuang in jail.

[GrahamB]

For competition I think I'd be working on Kill The Bag:

[Daniel]

The McKinley has the truth of it...techniques from NLP can - if used correctly - increase your abilities and learning in IMA by considerable amounts, just like in any other field. Not really part of the thread, I guess, just commenting that yup, this is my experience to, tried, tested, practiced, and used in bad situations.



D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[cerebus]

No punching bag, no equipment, only occasional training partners... I don't know that I actually WILL be doing any competitive fighting, right now it's just all theory and conjecture...

[neijia_boxer]

Tai Chi magazine Vol. 20 Number 3 (June 1996). Has an article about Cai Song Fang who practices WU JI standing that is performed before the Tai chi Yang set. The article says that Yang chen Fu was told by his father before he died that if he wanted to excel in taiji he would have to practice more Wu Ji standing. It would be the only way he would be able to surpass the already senior students of Yang Chien Hao.

Cai Song Fang had a hard time learning the long form so he settled with the wu ji standing. He was in the book called 'Warriors of Stillness' and has awesome push hands from what many people in the S.F. bay area say.

[I-mon]

I trained with Cai while I was in Shanghai. His pushhands was weird like no one else i've felt - he could redirect my force without me feeling a thing i would just end up moving in another direction. His Wuji standing method is beautiful.

Cerebus - why don't you just try it out? do lots of standing, spar, and see what happens?

[fuga]

I'm basically wondering what people's thoughts, suggestions and ideas are regarding concentrating mostly on Zhan Zhuang training for a couple of months and then fighting a competetive match. Some people seem to feel that Zhan Zhuang can really be a great training method for combat if one already has a solid base in the internal arts and fighting.

My 2 cents. From what I know of you, more work with training partners will get you further along than self-guided ZZ. And if you want to get better in preparation for a fight, you need to work with folks who are more skilled and experienced than me and Dave. This will improve your wind, your timing, and your relaxation under pressure.

Part of what you need to gauge is where you came up short in your last fight, and then develop a plan for overcoming those obstacles, which includes choosing the best way to meet those goals. Will self-guided zhan zhuang address where you had problems in your last fight? Are you approaching your fight from too much of a stylistic frame POV? Remember that the ruleset around a competitive match is different from a street encounter, and therefore the training goals and methods are different.

Have you checked out that gym yet?

-pete