the business side of things...

[bailewen]

No one seriously teaching quality martial arts will ever make a lot of money from it.

-Tim Cartmel comes to mind. (BJJ +IMA)
-Fairtex has some pretty damn nice looking schools out there. (Muay Thai)
-Chris Chan drives a BMW and he doesn't keep a day job. (Wing Chun, direct disciple of Yip Man)
-Dino Salvatera owns a home in SF and his only job is teaching martial arts. (Head of SF Hung Sing Choi Li Fut)
-Coach Ross has a highly successful Sanda team. (Lama Pai, Chen Tai San disciple)

Your argument implies that none of these folks seriously teach quality martial arts and those are just the names that came off the top of my head. Furthermore:

A. It means keeping teacher to student ratio way down.
B. It means students doing it *your* way and there is no other.
C. It means finding specific people who fit a specific model.
D. It means not having to do quite a bit of things in the article like newsletters, motivate clients, set goals with clients, pamper clients, making customer feel like they were right, feedback, etc.

A. Or cultivating a pool of talented assistants. If you are truly teaching quality martial arts, over time you should be able to train qualified instructors to teach under your authority.
B. That is just poor teaching and not indicitive of quality instruction. Confucious say "adjust the teaching to the student" (因材施教). There are always multiple ways.
C. If you truly provide the best example of that model, there will always be students. You can find just as many people by narrowing your focus as you can by broadening it. It just requires a different kind of marketing. You can be a specialists and attract people based on your specialty.
D. You don't have to do those things but for most of them, you are just being an idiot not to. Pampering students and making the "customer" feel they are always right may be innapropriate for martial arts training but motivation and goal setting is not only appropriate, it's almost a prerequisite or good teaching. I would not necessarily want to put out a newsletter but periodically presenting students with relevant articles or other tidbits of teachings that don't come from me would be, IMO, an excellent ideas. It's one that most of my favorite teachers have all incorporated. An inspirational New Yorker story about a struggling boxer? A book reccomendation? An article on human physiology that is relevant or maybe something historical? How about a mention of the style you teach that was in the news?

[cerebus]

I agree with Omar...

[cdobe]

I agree with Omar...

+1

[GrahamB]

I think the problem is the language used in the article. Marketingspeak. It gets mine and most people's back up. Now our faith in politicians, the news media and advertising claims has been well and truly shattered we're naturally suspicious. In our post Orwellian world http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/may/10/1984-george-orwell I think people will see through the whole birthday card thing. They're not going to think 'wow, that's so caring'. They know you want their money. The capitalists only hope is they're so desperate for love and attention of any kind they know and don't care. In fact, they probably are. So yes, it should work.

Time for some Radiohead.

Has the light gone out for you?
Because the light's gone for me
It is the 21st century
It is the 21st century

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZEpfICFkfQ

[ashe]

I think people will see through the whole birthday card thing. They're not going to think 'wow, that's so caring'. They know you want their money.

i think that depends.

there's a huge difference between a card that's obvioulsy been printed or stamped with a form gretting and a hand written card that says "hey, happy b day! what a year it's been. remember the time you kicked me in the balls. yeah... good times. looking forward to another year of working together! etc. etc."

[Bhassler]

In our post Orwellian world http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/may/10/1984-george-orwell I think people will see through the whole birthday card thing. They're not going to think 'wow, that's so caring'. They know you want their money. The capitalists only hope is they're so desperate for love and attention of any kind they know and don't care. In fact, they probably are. So yes, it should work.

This is not true. Maybe if you never spoke to the people you were teaching it would be seen that way. Do your current students all think you want their money and that's the only reason why you do it? Do you feel that way about your teacher? It can be a very simple holiday card with nothing but your signature and people will appreciate that you thought to make a gesture, and they realize that it takes time to do that for every single one of your students. And it doesn't have to be a card. My friend went to a bjj school where on your birthday everyone lined up and threw you as many times as you were years old. It's great training and it's birthday themed-- what more could you ask? Something silly like that goes a long ways towards bringing people's art into every aspect of their lives, which is good for them, good for the art, and good for you. Nothing wrong with a win-win situation, is there?

[Bhassler]

1. People walk into a martial arts school and want something for their money. If they don't get it, they leave. Now, what's more important? Having more students so that you can pay the bills and keep the school open or keeping a smaller student base of dedicated people?

2. Pure monetary sums. 861 sq. ft (almost 30x30) office space in Pittsburgh for $12/sq ft /year = $861/month lease. Utilities of water/sewage/electric/phone run $200/month being thrifty. Now you're at $1061/month without insurance and not factoring in equipment/mats/etc. Student rates in Pittsburgh can run $75/month. Basic math suggests that you're going to need 15 students to cover the above costs. Now, what's more important in your mind -- Keeping the bills paid or teaching quality?

I lumped these two together because they're essentially the same question, and my answer is if a person can't give quality instruction to 15 people at a time, then that person knows that they need to improve their teaching skills. In much the same way that physical structure is used to create a base of support and power in martial arts, a good class structure will create an educational base where students are guided so that they learn a tremendous amount without having to be explicitly told everything by the instructor. It doesn't have to be either/or, it is quite possible to achieve both.

3. It's a no brainer to look at koryu in the Japanese arts and see that they are kept small for specific reasons. Their teaching model isn't one of "clients". If you don't fit "their" model, then you're out. Period. It's also a no brainer to look at most of the aikido world and see that it's run as a business model for income. Or even the tae kwon do world. The former example doesn't use "Improving Revenues by Increasing the Customer Experience" while the latter examples do.

If you're training people in traditional Japanese arts in traditional Japanese manner, you're already providing an outrageous level of customer service. From then it's just a question of what, if anything, you choose to charge for that.



4. There was someone here who posted his experiences about training in some Chinese art and his teacher would have him do different things while all other students did forms. So, who here believes that all those people doing forms were getting "quality" training? Or is it really that the one person was getting the quality training while the others were there to keep the business open? And how many times has that happened? Those people might *want* to do forms, but they aren't getting the quality martial art; they're getting the superficial martial art of forms. See examples in 99% of aikido, karate, taichi, tae kwon do, etc.

Again, it depends on how the training is structured. A person could just have a bunch of bodies filling space to keep the doors open and seriously train only a few, or a person could have people doing different things depending on their needs. If you have 20 people who want to do taiji for health and 2 guys who want to learn to fight, you can provide quality instruction to both groups depending on their needs, and that might involve splitting the class. In that instance, that would be good customer service. But just because one guy gets old-school basics while everyone else spends a lot of time on form work doesn't mean they're getting screwed-- it just depends on the individual instructor and how much thought/effort they've put into both parts of the class.


5. I'm not saying everything in the article is horrible. But it is a horrible article overall for any kind of quality martial arts instruction. Even the title sums it up, "Improving Revenues by Increasing the Customer Experience"
Q: What are you improving?
A: Revenues

Q: How are you improving those revenues?
A: By making my clients better and happier.


No one seriously teaching quality martial arts will ever make a lot of money from it.
A. It means keeping teacher to student ratio way down.
B. It means students doing it *your* way and there is no other.
C. It means finding specific people who fit a specific model.
D. It means not having to do quite a bit of things in the article like newsletters, motivate clients, set goals with clients, pamper clients, making customer feel like they were right, feedback, etc.

A. Sometimes, but not always. Certainly I could teach an empty hand art (and certain knife arts) to a lot of people at the same time with a high level of quality. I imagine it could be done with weapon arts as well, but I don't do any weapon arts so it's just speculation.

B. That's one model, but one could teach in such a way that people start out doing whatever they do and arrive at *your* way through learning and experience

C. Again, that's one model. Another model is starting where they're at and bringing them to where they need to be.

D. Motivation, goals, and feedback are implicit in the kind of training you're talking about. In my view, anyone delivering traditional Japanese training in a traditional Japanese manner is probably already pampering their clients (relative to the expectations/wants/needs of the client, which doesn't necessarily mean making it easy). Making the customer feel like they were right is over stated in some respects, but the idea is to get along with your customer. You can be firm without being abusive (obviously).


Some people may not be interested in providing this type of service, but that in no way means that it is contrary to quality instruction or anything else.

[D_Glenn]

The original article brought up the comparison to starbucks and the reason that it's a thriving company is because I can walk into any starbucks in the world and get a latte that tastes exactly the same as the latte I had the day before that and so on. Buying a cheaper latte at a different coffee shop doesn't taste the same, doesn't satisfy, and I usually have to go get a starbucks anyway.

So is the best way to run a school to have every class the same? If someone misses a month or two they can come back and be right where they left off. People don't like change, they want to get in a rhythm, they go to the gym and lift the same weights in the same order and the consistent regimen is what keeps them coming back. I think the best school I went to was the one where every class was essentially the same. He had extra $10/$20 classes that went over different material, which he'd make a little flyer for explaining exactly what the class was going to be.

That first class at a new school is always the worst experience so why make every class a person comes to the same way. People like to know exactly what they're going to be doing. -my 2c

edit- just read B's post and I would add that for an IMA school with jibengong being the foundation of the art this model will also keep the integrity of the art, weed out the people who don't have the heart for IMA, and as long people come to class they will get long-lasting benefits.

.

[Bhassler]

The content itself doesn't have to be exactly the same, but the format could be the same, or have a number of class "types" to choose from (i.e. jibengong class, application class, form class, etc.) It might not appeal to everybody to teach this way but it is a nice way to maintain a consistent quality of instruction and have students be able to hit the ground running so to speak from class to class. You can turn out some really good martial artists/fighters with this model, too.

[Mut]

jesus, I read most of this thread.... I can't believe some of you don't want to train in a space where your teacher cares, not only about the art but the students also. That article was simply about treating people with respect. Respect does not mean dumbing down whast you teach it is about including the student and making them feel a part of the school. If you want to have skilled students you need to keep them for a long time.... If you have good product and good people skills you can develop a business that does not compromise on the teaching nor on making some $$$'s.

being friendly and helpful does not mean you can't train hard or push students, nor does it mean you can't be honest.

[ashe]

The content itself doesn't have to be exactly the same, but the format could be the same, or have a number of class "types" to choose from (i.e. jibengong class, application class, form class, etc.) It might not appeal to everybody to teach this way but it is a nice way to maintain a consistent quality of instruction and have students be able to hit the ground running so to speak from class to class. You can turn out some really good martial artists/fighters with this model, too.

this is the model i'm using right now and i find it works pretty well. the folks who are health oriented basically only want form and jibengong, so they only come to those classes. the folks who want more have to come ot the jibengong classes PLUS the sticky hand classes that i run on wednesday, friday and saturday.