Sparring newbies

[Juan]

Anyone have a hard time sparring with new guys? I find it sometimes difficult to spar with newbies because their movements are so freaking unpredictable. The other day I was sparring with a guy who's kicks were unbelieveably hard to read because his movements were so awkward. He also punched kinda like the rock 'em sock 'em robots and would catch me. The whole time I sparred with him I was kind of laughing to myself because I he honestly got the better of me. Obviously I wasn't going hard at all, and was trying to work more on defense rather than offense but it was funny how difficult it was to read him. Anyone else have this experience?

[cerebus]

Oh yeah. Anytime you get too used to the angles and movements of punches and kicks thrown by skilled fighters, you have to keep in mind that an untrained invidual will be coming at you from angles and in ways you're not used to. That's why it's good to fight in an occasional "tough man" contest to be prepared for the wild & the weird...

[neijia_boxer]

yes people who are uncoordinated n awkward, no sense of timing and rhythm, and not know what they are doing are very dangerous indeed.

i work with the new people all the time n after the first one... i learned my lesson... now I get EXTRA aggressive on defense and anticipate the unpredictable.

this could be pad holding or sparring.

lately at the gym i've amazed people with quickness to move out of the way of newbie kicks missing the pad going right at my head or stopping my head kick the newbie failed to hold the pad up for.

[Juan]

yes people who are uncoordinated n awkward, no sense of timing and rhythm, and not know what they are doing are very dangerous indeed.

i work with the new people all the time n after the first one... i learned my lesson... now I get EXTRA aggressive on defense and anticipate the unpredictable.

this could be pad holding or sparring.

lately at the gym i've amazed people with quickness to move out of the way of newbie kicks missing the pad going right at my head or stopping my head kick the newbie failed to hold the pad up for.

A few weeks ago I was holding pads for a new guys, I was holding them a little lower than chest height for him to hit with a round house kick. Will he completely missed the pads and nailed me straight in the balls...full on! lol Needless to say I had to take a seat for a few minutes while he hit the heavy bag for a while. My Kru was cracking up.

[qiphlow]

you and troy should compare stories.

[johnwang]

difficult to spar with newbies because their movements are so freaking unpredictable.

Against new guy, if you

- kick him, he will most likely kick back at you right way.
- punch him, he will most likely punch back at you right way.
- push him, he will most likely push back at you at the same time.
- pull him, he will most likely pull you at the same time.

Against experience guy, if you

- Kick him, he will most likely punch back at you right away.
- punch him, he will most likely kick back at you right way.
- push him, he will most likely pull you at the same time.
- pull him, he will most likely push you at the same time.

The new guy don't know how to borrow force so they may always resist and copy whatever you are doing. The experience guy may resist you or borrow your force depending on how he feels. Which one is more unpredictable?

[Dmitri]

I guess a lesson to take from that experience is, don't get caught in a "sparring game" that so many schools love so much.

And another one, -- GO SEE OTHER PEOPLE, outside of your school/style.

The more diversity in training, (or at least the more "fresh" the mindset is kept, i.e. staying away from a "sparring game"), -- the fewer surprises there can be, from unskilled OR from skilled opponents.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

just maul them, make them pregnant and send them home.

[Juan]

I guess a lesson to take from that experience is, don't get caught in a "sparring game" that so many schools love so much.

And another one, -- GO SEE OTHER PEOPLE, outside of your school/style.

The more diversity in training, (or at least the more "fresh" the mindset is kept, i.e. staying away from a "sparring game"), -- the fewer surprises there can be, from unskilled OR from skilled opponents.

huh? Not following you here. If I go and train at another school I can still read an experienced guys moves better than a newbie's. It's the awkward movements that get me. Kicks and punches come at you from angles that are typically not thrown from. At the MT gym I train at we get guys from all kinds of backgrounds and spar with all different kinds of people. My favorite story is of me nearly getting KOed by an alternate from the US men's olympic TKD team. Also, the kind of sparring we do at the gym I would not consider a "game." We range from full contact to light sparring.

[Juan]

just maul them, make them pregnant and send them home.

lol...can't do that. First off I would hate to have had that happen to me when I first started and second I want the gym where I train at to stay open. If we do that to all the newbies then 90% of them would not come back.

[Chris McKinley]

Spar as many different types of people as well as styles as you can, including lots of newbies. Eventually, you will learn to read movement instead of moves and it won't matter anymore.

[Dmitri]

At the MT gym I train at we get guys from all kinds of backgrounds and spar with all different kinds of people.

But it's still at your gym, and it's still YOUR "sparring game" -- what I mean is it's a specific "if I do A, then he will do B or C; if he does X, then I will do Y or Z..." type of reaction... It's a set of expectations in an engagement; you drill it to death and learn to anticipate very specific types of responses. It's not as much how "trained" they are, IMHO it's more about in WHAT they are trained.

I dunno how else to explain... (no time either right now -- sorry...)
Chris sort'a said the same thing... maybe he'll clarify.

[cerebus]

you and troy should compare stories.

Yeah, one time I was sparring this NOOB and he kicked me in the nads. So, the next time he threw a kick at me, I grabbed his kicking leg and HIT HIM WITH PLANET EARTH!!!

[neijia_boxer]

Against new guy, if you

- kick him, he will most likely kick back at you right way.
- punch him, he will most likely punch back at you right way.
- push him, he will most likely push back at you at the same time.
- pull him, he will most likely pull you at the same time.

Against experience guy, if you

- Kick him, he will most likely punch back at you right away.
- punch him, he will most likely kick back at you right way.
- push him, he will most likely pull you at the same time.
- pull him, he will most likely push you at the same time.

i always enjoy John's wisdom

[Juan]

At the MT gym I train at we get guys from all kinds of backgrounds and spar with all different kinds of people.

But it's still at your gym, and it's still YOUR "sparring game" -- what I mean is it's a specific "if I do A, then he will do B or C; if he does X, then I will do Y or Z..." type of reaction... It's a set of expectations in an engagement; you drill it to death and learn to anticipate very specific types of responses. It's not as much how "trained" they are, IMHO it's more about in WHAT they are trained.

I dunno how else to explain... (no time either right now -- sorry...)
Chris sort'a said the same thing... maybe he'll clarify.

Don't really agree with you here. If we are two different styles sparring at a gym then responses are still different. Karate guys I've sparred with at my gym move different from MT guys, TKD guys move different, Kung Fu guys move different, Capoeira guys move different, etc, etc. It's just that (some, not all) newbies movements are so uncoordinated that seem to come out of no where. Maybe I'm not expressing my thoughts correctly and that's were the confusion is coming in.