defining tai chi chuan

[bruce]

-what is tai chi chuan?
-what was tai chi chuan developed for?
-why practice tai chi chuan?
-is tai chi chuan a martial art?
-if yes why?
-if no why?

i will start this in the main forum and hope it gets honest answers to honest questions instead of btdt banter.

[klonk]

I think it was developed as a martial art, but has somewhat come down in the world. Perhaps it was better stuff before Mao. We shall never know.

Some say it was developed as an exercise to perfect the movements of external martial arts. Others say it drew from and perfected the principles of external martial arts, thus grew beyond them.

External is anything your taiji teacher does not like and practice himself. That is the working definition, as near as I can peg it.

(This is intended as a serious reply, but some people say I am none too serious at any time, so I hope no confusion results.)

[bruce]

can tai chi chuan evolve?
can tai chi chuan be different things to different people?

[bruce]

I think it was developed as a martial art, but has somewhat come down in the world. Perhaps it was better stuff before Mao. We shall never know.

Some say it was developed as an exercise to perfect the movements of external martial arts. Others say it drew from and perfected the principles of external martial arts, thus grew beyond them.

External is anything your taiji teacher does not like and practice himself. That is the working definition, as near as I can peg it.

(This is intended as a serious reply, but some people say I am none too serious at any time, so I hope no confusion results.)

some tai chi chuan systems/groups were not affected by "mao" as they left china for various parts of asia before "mao" did his thing.

i think it can help your "other" martial arts.

[DeusTrismegistus]

1. what is tai chi chuan?
A: Tai chi is a method of movement and method of thought.

2. what was tai chi chuan developed for?
A: Only those who developed it know the answer. The changes made by masters and passed down within their system might have many reasons. Sun Lutang shanged the hand position in santi for better qi flow but still said to use the older hand position for combat. Different masters likely changed the taiji forms to better fit with what they likes most about taiji and this means as much as many people would hate to admit that some lineages may be better for fighting than others and some will be better at meditation than others.

2. why practice tai chi chuan?
A: Personally, its fun. Don't really need any more reason than that do we? I also know it has definite combat value and I feel it is the logical direction for martial arts practice to go as you gain experience and skill.

3. is tai chi chuan a martial art?
A: Yes. Just about any way you define a martial art taiji will fit the definition. Its body methods when done correctly have definite martial value and the movements are definite martial movements.

[mixjourneyman]

"some tai chi chuan systems/groups were not affected by "mao" as they left china for various parts of asia before "mao" did his thing."

Thats patently ridiculous. There is a pile of good taiji in China still. In aproximately 15 years, how could Mao possibly have affected all of the taiji community.

[mixjourneyman]

-what is tai chi chuan?
A martial art based on the transition between soft and hard.

-what was tai chi chuan developed for?
Fighting

-why practice tai chi chuan?
To make your body strong and learn how to kick ass.
Or, to get in touch with your inner landscape.

-is tai chi chuan a martial art?
Yes

-if yes why?
Because it contains martial applications and combat methodology.

-if no why?
Because most taiji people only practice so that they can get in touch with the universe. Ommmmmm

[Dmitri]

[all answers are of course my personal opinion/view]

-what is tai chi chuan?
As the name suggests , it's a martial art based on 'tai chi', which is a fundamental universal principle of interaction between yin and yang.

-what was tai chi chuan developed for?
Depends on the branch; some for fighting some for health.

-why practice tai chi chuan?
It's fun;
It improves (on many levels) self-awareness and awareness of others;
I like the paradoxical nature of it, the subtlety of practice methods turning almost implicitly into substantial results;
It is something I can still do when I'm old. Or so I hope.

-is tai chi chuan a martial art?
To me, yes.

-if yes why?
Because that's how I like to classify it.

-can tai chi chuan evolve?
It already has (been) and it will continue.

-can tai chi chuan be different things to different people?
It already has been. There are as many "styles" as there are people; even if a student mimicks the master blindly as closely as possible, it will still become his own (if he practices hard enough.) Entropy prevails.

[bruce]

"some tai chi chuan systems/groups were not affected by "mao" as they left china for various parts of asia before "mao" did his thing."

Thats patently ridiculous. There is a pile of good taiji in China still. In aproximately 15 years, how could Mao possibly have affected all of the taiji community.

i agree ...
i am sure "mao" had affected much of the tai chi chuan world in china but of coarse not all. but what i was saying is even if he did there are groups of tai chi chuan people who had left china before "mao" was doing his thing.
i think you quote my answer to another posters comment about how he feels mao affected tai chi chuan.

[bruce]

good opinions so far ... no real contradictions yet

[mixjourneyman]

"some tai chi chuan systems/groups were not affected by "mao" as they left china for various parts of asia before "mao" did his thing."

Thats patently ridiculous. There is a pile of good taiji in China still. In aproximately 15 years, how could Mao possibly have affected all of the taiji community.

i agree ...
i am sure "mao" had affected much of the tai chi chuan world in china but of coarse not all. but what i was saying is even if he did there are groups of tai chi chuan people who had left china before "mao" was doing his thing.
i think you quote my answer to another posters comment about how he feels mao affected tai chi chuan.

Sorry mang, you know I just get so burned out by people claiming that the only real taiji (or other art) emigrated from China to Taiwan (or whatever other country), when the art(s) is still flourishing in China.

[bruce]

cool man ...

this leads to a question though. many (not all) in china would not say tai chi chuan is a martial art. why would they have that opinion?
they would say tai chi chuan is a gentle moving meditation to build your health. while they are doing good by making people more healthy should they call it another name? or is there room for more than one definition of what tai chi chuan is?

[mixjourneyman]

I think there is room for multiple definitions of the art, as long as people stay honest about it.

[Bao]

-what is tai chi chuan?

Every practitioner must find his own answer

-what was tai chi chuan developed for?

The question is wrong. Taijiquan is a modern term. The modern art has been made up by and developed through many different arts and developed by many different persons. The art became what it is because many different persons developed it further for many different reasons. Some part has martial origin, some parts are philosophical, some parts are developed out of medical knowledge and daoyin practice. Taijiquan has room for many different things, one reason might ot be more clear than another one. Who can say exactly where and by who Taijiquan started? It evolved to what it is and it will continue to mean different things to different people.

-why practice tai chi chuan?

Differnet practitioner has different reasons. There is no wrong reason and there is no right reason.

-is tai chi chuan a martial art?

If you can use your art to fight with, yes - then your taiji has a quality as martial art.

[johnwang]

Why nobody ever asked "What is XingYi chuan?" or "What is Bagua chuan?" Is there something that's unique in Taiji? The uniqueness in Taiji is it wants to be treated as MA but it also look down on MA and treat fighting as "low level". It's like a girl who wants people to think she is pretty but the moment people say that she is pretty, she feels that she was insulted and been treated as a "low level" sex toy.