"Transparent Power" (Tomei na Chikara)

[DeusTrismegistus]

In the book CM Shifflett suggests that the whole idea of actually "teaching" people anything was alien to people like Takeda and Ueshiba anyway, let alone teaching them some things and holding back secrets. It suggests they taught by example - they knocked you down and it was up to you to work out how they did it. It was up to the student to "steal the art", and it was only when people like Kano (influenced by Western teaching methods) appeared who started to actually teach people how they did their stuff (and got results in much less time) that teaching (as we would understand it) became a popular idea.

It's certainly true they could have been told to keep the secrets back, but I think you'd have to evaluate that in the context of the whole teaching culture at the time.

Sagawa also mentions that 'back in the day' teachers did not spoon feed you but if they showed you something once that meant they had taught you. Which makes it very hard for anyone to get the real goods unless you are exceptionally talented and observant.

According to my teacher GM Chang taught that way as well.

It is definetly hard to learn things from that way of teaching but on the same token once you really took the movement and figured it out you would REALLY know it. There are movements I "know" but I don't really KNOW them in the sense that they are part of my arsenal on automatic response. Also with masters taught in that manner it makes more sense on why people were afraid to do certain things in public for fear of giving away secrets. If someone learns everything by only being shown it once then they would only need to see something once to steal it.

[Interloper]

This is still true in many respects - that people with The Goods hold their knowledge close to the vest and don't spoonfeed it or give it away. I've met some of those. And while there are a few who openly teach it and who are generous with their knowledge, even they expect serious students to do the homework, and to respect the material and not give away indiscriminately.

Sagawa kept key information to himself, at his teacher's (Takeda Sokaku) behest, until very late in life, when he realized that if he didn't pass it along it would die with him. Only then did he start to teach it, and even then only one of his students, Kimura, really tucked into the self-practice and gained amazing skills. This points out several important lessons, two of which are 1. ONLY through direct transmission and teaching from one person to another can this stuff be learned, and 2. ONLY through diligent solo practice, hours and hours of effort alone, can it be inculcated. You can't gain the skills efficiently from just training at the school a few times a week. Like piano lessons, you have to take the corrections and snips of new material home and train the hell out of them.

That's the essence of what Sagawa is saying (over and over... the guy sounds like he was a crotchety old cuss crabbing about everything... ) in "Clear (Transparent) Power."

[dtactics]

Sagawa kept key information to himself, at his teacher's (Takeda Sokaku) behest, until very late in life, when he realized that if he didn't pass it along it would die with him.

And that's a very irresponsible and selfish mindset. Had he died prematurely, all would be lost.

Any teacher worth his salt knows what he has before him in terms of students. To hold back after accepting them as pupils is plain wrong. These archaic and insecure traditions need to be eliminated from MAs. That's why MMA is having such a rapid growth. No one with-holds anything because they want everyone to push the envelope. Check out any of Kevin Secour's DVDs and see how many gems he sprinkles liberally to explain Systema. And that's just on DVDs, in person he holds nothing back when asked and always encourages questions. That is a mark of a true teacher who cares about his student's growth.

[I am...]

Sagawa kept key information to himself, at his teacher's (Takeda Sokaku) behest, until very late in life, when he realized that if he didn't pass it along it would die with him.

And that's a very irresponsible and selfish mindset. Had he died prematurely, all would be lost.

Any teacher worth his salt knows what he has before him in terms of students. To hold back after accepting them as pupils is plain wrong. These archaic and insecure traditions need to be eliminated from MAs. That's why MMA is having such a rapid growth. No one with-holds anything because they want everyone to push the envelope. Check out any of Kevin Secour's DVDs and see how many gems he sprinkles liberally to explain Systema. And that's just on DVDs, in person he holds nothing back when asked and always encourages questions. That is a mark of a true teacher who cares about his student's growth.

There is a fine balance here, imho: This stuff cannot be given away, you can only open the door for the student. Past that point, they must do the work to know the material, intellectual "knowledge" on this topic, is a far cry from the real thing, and only vaguely related if at all. Knowing of something doesn't mean the same thing as knowing it experientially. Being handed something can result in developing the skill without knowing a lot of the why's regarding the strengths and weaknesses of the technique or concept in question, since the exploration portion of the development was not fleshed out. The higher up the ladder one ascends, the more vital it is to know how to explore your system for yourself. Once your sifu is dead or you surpass them and those around you, it may become your only source of furthering your knowledge.

I don't in any way advocate a teacher not teaching his dedicated students, but it has also been my observation that no matter how dedicated the student is, often life, family, reality, health, etc. preclude them from being the "lineage inheritor" or equivalent, so to speak, even if they seem to think they deserve it.

Some seem to have kept the information to themselves due to insecurities, being stubborn, etc. Some seem to have done so because nobody was willing to do or go through what they did.

[dtactics]

Agreed. No one is advocating casting pearls upon swines nor suggesting anything be "given" away. Martial arts is foremost about earning and learning.

My point is if a deshi has proven worthiness, the teacher has a duty to lead him to water. It is presumed he would drink on his own (dedication and loyalty) since the vetting process for becoming a student had been met. Not to mention that in Sagawa's time, you probably needed introduction letters from reliable sources before being accepted into his dojo.

Therefore, there's no excuse for almost letting the art die with him under the guise of caution. A master has the same duties towards his pupils as he expects in return. Its absence leads encourages cults, nepotism and worship.

[velalavela]

Just on this point from Graham and AlanF

AllanF wrote:
GrahamB wrote:
In the book CM Shifflett suggests that the whole idea of actually "teaching" people anything was alien to people like Takeda and Ueshiba anyway, let alone teaching them some things and holding back secrets. It suggests they taught by example - they knocked you down and it was up to you to work out how they did it. It was up to the student to "steal the art", and it was only when people like Kano (influenced by Western teaching methods) appeared who started to actually teach people how they did their stuff (and got results in much less time) that teaching (as we would understand it) became a popular idea.

It's certainly true they could have been told to keep the secrets back, but I think you'd have to evaluate that in the context of the whole teaching culture at the time.

Sagawa also mentions that 'back in the day' teachers did not spoon feed you but if they showed you something once that meant they had taught you. Which makes it very hard for anyone to get the real goods unless you are exceptionally talented and observant.

My Fut Gar teacher did have a similar aproach. I guess there could have been a language barrier as much as a cultural or 'traditional' way of teaching as Cantonese was his first language not English but also he always stressed basics and hard work and not some esoteric secrets.

He would teach by example and less by words.

I don't think these guys were holding anything back. You just had to be dedicated, observant and talented. (Well one out of three ain't bad...I'm very observant)

This aproach is really not so different from my current teacher of Wu Style Tai Chi and my teacher Hap Gar now to tell the truth. Again the English as a second language could be an issue though both have lived in the west for 20 years. One is actually very fluent in English and the other teaches us only in Cantonese!

[AllanF]

My Fut Gar teacher did have a similar aproach. I guess there could have been a language barrier as much as a cultural or 'traditional' way of teaching as Cantonese was his first language not English but also he always stressed basics and hard work and not some esoteric secrets.

He would teach by example and less by words.

I don't think these guys were holding anything back. You just had to be dedicated, observant and talented. (Well one out of three ain't bad...I'm very observant)

This aproach is really not so different from my current teacher of Wu Style Tai Chi and my teacher Hap Gar now to tell the truth. Again the English as a second language could be an issue though both have lived in the west for 20 years. One is actually very fluent in English and the other teaches us only in Cantonese!

In regards to Sagawa he was talking about training the body, not about technique, which he said was always something done quietly in the background and never shown to others. Indeed Takeda Sokaku had told him never to show anyone some of the exercises. As stated before it was only when he got old and good throw all his students, even those who had many years of practice, that he decided to teach the body training.

[AllanF]

Does anyone know if the book is available to buy yet? I had a look at the website but there doesn't seem to be anything further.

thanks
Allan

[AllanF]

many thanks Tom much appreciated.

[Bodywork]

The book is due out August 20th they are accepting pre-orders. See here.
Dan
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78

[GrahamB]

http://transparentpower.com/images/10-1.jpg

There's a full page print of this photo in the book on Alexander technique I'm reading at the moment - the caption says something like "perfectly contained power" - that guy has a fantastic posture.

[AllanF]

Thanks Dan much appreciated.
Allan

[ashe]

look forward to reading that

i find there's more "how to" in these sorts of books than an actual "how to" kind of book...

[Interloper]

look forward to reading that

i find there's more "how to" in these sorts of books than an actual "how to" kind of book...

You won't find any "how to" in "Transparent Power," just the repeated exhortations that:
1. anything of value in IMA, you will have to "steal," because it won't be openly taught or given out.
2. internal power requires relentless, correct solo training.
3. people who think that learning/memorizing technique is the way to go, are fools who will never have true power.
4. you will never have the skill that Sagawa had, because you are a) too lazy, b) are a technique "junkie."
5. Sagawa's student Kimura is the only guy who is "getting it" because he listens to Sensei and works his ass off in solo training.
6. you guys would never have amounted to anything if Sagawa hadn't finally relented, in the last years of his life, and finally revealed some of the specific, detailed internal exercises that must be done (solo) to develop the internal body method that powers aiki and all spontaneous technique.
7. You guys will never be any good because you won't train like I (Sagawa) trained.

and so on.

Enjoy reading this collection of repetitive rants and gripes from a cranky old man.

Don't get me wrong: there are some pearls buried in there, but they are regarding the philosophy of budo/bujutsu, training, discipline, attitude, dedication. Plenty of wisdom. Just no "how to"s for actual internal-method body training.

[Interloper]

What I've read of the first edition does have plenty of good anecdotes, and sets forth Sagawa's priorities about training. He talks about some of his regimen (such as swinging the "hexagonal pole"), talks about the mistake of focusing on building a muscular body instead of an internally developed one, and provides a number of insights about what it takes to train effectively. As I mentioned earlier, there are plenty of pearls and lots of wisdom.

But, it is not really a "how-to," as in the specific method for developing "clear power." Anyone who thinks they will gain a look at the precise process for developing aiki and IMA power will be disappointed. In sum, it's a fine perspective on what it takes to be the best you can be in whatever discipline you choose; in Sagawa's case, a bujutsuka of great power.