Yi quan and qi concept

[Wanderingdragon]

"There is no limit in the development in science", "Dachengchuan" to me "Great Accomplishment Fist " is the better name for this art thouhg Master Wang's humility would not allow it , and also believed that accomplishment was never ending as is evidenced in the opening statement . In looking at the curriculum , I saught to find something that would not, has not, come from dilligent study of any authentic MA. As an intro to a way of thinking Yiquan is excellent, but I think one must know that they must bring something in terms of skill when deciding to study Yiquan, for still I see it as an adjunct to what one already knows, but without previous knowledge it is another style with forms and all.
JJ, you must understand the truth of the sweat you speak of Master Wang losing , was in the development of this skill, through many hard worked previous years of honing his MA expertise to the point of becoming Dachengquan, and the many years of continued study seeking to reach higher levels of expertise even after his evolution, this is the Taoist way, a journey to become one.

[Sprint]

sprint.......what are you trying to prove? john has contributed a great deal to this and other forums over the few years i've been here. he helped me find an yiquan teacher when i went to china, and he has helped several other forum members directly as well as providing a hell of a lot of useful information to everyone through his contributions to threads on the forum. he's been training hard for a long time and is trying to provide his perspective on the art without ever pretending to be the greatest scholar or the next Wang Xiang Zhai. if he and Dacheng disagree that's fine, both are contributing and both have clearly spent a good deal of time training under genuine teachers of the art.

sorry man i just don't see anything but purely negative personal attacks from your posts.

John, as my posts have made clear, invented - made up out of his own head - theories to justify his conception of qi in yiquan. That would have been partially forgiveable if it was just his opinion, if he had said this is what I believe. People would have been free to accept or reject his notions on that basis. But he took it a step further. He claimed that what he quoting was the work of Wang Xian Zhai. It was not. He got found out.

The other little discussion I had with John was in regard to zhan zhuang. I challenged his assertion that zhan zhuang increased bone density. He said this occurred when the legs "thundered together". He could not produce any study details that backed up what he said.

So two times that I have noticed he makes stuff up. Just fuckin invents crap.

John makes a big play about credibility. He tries to get people to justify themselves to him so that he can decide if they are worthy. Fuck off.

You say I'm negative and making personal attacks. Show me any post I wrote that insults him directly in the way he has ripped into me. I like to think it's a positive help to show up the weaknesses in someones argument, or in these two cases show where there is no argument at all.

This is a guy who believes in "..... drawing qi from trees..... is what I was told the purpose of the practice was. " I mean jesus tap-dancing christ.....that is delusional.

[Joe L.]

Yet really all in all, have you even stated where you get your knowledge from, Sprint? Jesus tap-dancing christ, you think a person who is going to be so belligerent towards someone who has contributed information, and has been up front where he got his info from, would at the least state where it is he is basing his ramblings from.

[I-mon]

Sorry again sprint. when john says something like "standing for long periods increases bone density" and that he thinks it comes from the intense shaking that happens when standing, he is giving us his opinion based on his experience. those of us who have studied anatomy and physiology know that bones and tendons are constantly being remolded according to the stresses they are placed under. anyone who has practiced real zhan zhuang methods from yiquan knows that the bones are being lined up in a particular way and that the joints, muscles and tendons are also being deliberately worked, twisting and stretching and contracting throughout the seemingly static exercise. it makes sense then that over time this exercise will strengthen the connective tissue and increase bone density in the areas required to make the exercise more stable and comfortable.

all of that last part however is up to us to think about and try to work out if we are interested. it is not up to john to provide studies to back up his "claims", he has already contributed by giving us his experience. he's the one who has actually done the standing for hours at a time for many years under the supervision of a qualified teacher of yiquan.

[everything]

on the bones tangent this gallery: http://www.paulgrilley.com/content/reso ... lery.shtml shows how the same bones vary quite a lot across people and can limit or allow rom (not sure that's true but that's what this says).

(found it from http://northstarmartialarts.com/blog1/)

apologies for the derailment. back to qi.

[jjy5016]

Sprint

I don't need to explain anything to you or anyone else. Do the research yourself to find out the effect that vibrations have on bone marrow and bone density.
If you knew the method of zhan zhuang I practice you would realize these and other benefits.

Why do i need to prove anything to someone like you? You've proven quite a bit with your raving and ranting for two days. You've shown that you are a pitifully bitter individual with little control of your emotions. I'm glad that you've found a purpose in life trying to discredit me. It would probably piss you off to know that I have a student that also studies with Cui Rui Bin privately and tells me that the training and theory is pretty much the same. It will probably make you even angrier to learn that I make at least $30.00 a head for every class I teach and that I don't have room for any more students in my class.

So keep it up. You are starting to amuse me.

[Sprint]

Sorry again sprint. when john says something like "standing for long periods increases bone density" and that he thinks it comes from the intense shaking that happens when standing, he is giving us his opinion based on his experience. those of us who have studied anatomy and physiology know that bones and tendons are constantly being remolded according to the stresses they are placed under. anyone who has practiced real zhan zhuang methods from yiquan knows that the bones are being lined up in a particular way and that the joints, muscles and tendons are also being deliberately worked, twisting and stretching and contracting throughout the seemingly static exercise. it makes sense then that over time this exercise will strengthen the connective tissue and increase bone density in the areas required to make the exercise more stable and comfortable.

all of that last part however is up to us to think about and try to work out if we are interested. it is not up to john to provide studies to back up his "claims", he has already contributed by giving us his experience. he's the one who has actually done the standing for hours at a time for many years under the supervision of a qualified teacher of yiquan.

I would agree wholeheartedly but your friend John dressed it up as being irefutable fact. In my view if someone sets something out as a fact he should be able to prove it, which in this case he could not. You may not think it important but some people with bone thinning disease who can't afford healthcare might think they would be able to help themselves following his advice. Hearsay often gets dressed up as fact, quite often people have unhealthy motivations for so doing. Sometimes it's just lazy thinking, sometimes it's just plain bullshit.

John, I'm glad to see you make a good living, although your other friend Redmund2905 said "The overwhelming majority of those who came found it too difficult or too boring (which was evidence of their shallowness, IMO)." It might also be evidence of their common sense - now there's a thought.

Joe L, I don't recall ever having discussed anything with you before and here you throwing insults at me. Nice guy. So I've to be civil to you and answer your questions, right?

[jjy5016]

Oh, so now I might be responsible for people with bone thinning disease who can't afford healthcare trying zhan zhuang as an alternative treatment? If they did it right they would probably see positiver results. You'll come up with anything to justify your obsession with discrediting me. At least make an attempt to sound credible.

But just keep on with it. Like I said you are starting to amuse me.

Still waiting to hear from where your expertise on the practice of yiquan came from? The Bo Jia Cong DVD series perhaps? The Second Course? The Yao Correspondence Course? Come on, give me somethng.

[redmund2905]

John, I'm glad to see you make a good living, although your other friend Redmund2905 said "The overwhelming majority of those who came found it too difficult or too boring (which was evidence of their shallowness, IMO)." It might also be evidence of their common sense - now there's a thought.

Maybe -- but it's not much of a thought. In any event, to my knowledge you've never practiced with us, so your flip statement carries no weight. I'll stick with my original characterization that those who found our practice boring are not particularly deep. I'm not saying that having seen it one has to rush out and scream "That's what I want to do![,]" but to disparage and devalue our training -- as you've done here -- is puerile. BTW, would you make the same observation if a xingyi exponent spoke of santi in these terms?

[Strange]

"drawing qi from trees"
heh i just read this. my teacher spoke of this also. in lhbf, qi is drawn from the tree through the legs; akin to qigong breathing.
but i do think that using the palm may be more direct. i have read that Wang thinks that one of the least practiced jin is the sucking/sticking type.

i remember one day when i ask my teacher about qi; he smilingly say ok you feel my dantian. at times it was like a wave of soft gel; at times it was like a film over air. to me it seems like not humanly possible.

my teacher, ma brothers and myself are all very sane people.
just saying, cheers, S.