Takedowns from the Knees

[CaliG]

So how do the grapplers on here deal with takedowns from the knees?

For a long time I didn't think much of the on knees position and I didn't think it was realistic but I realize that you can end up there a lot on the ground whenever someone isn't pinned.

But the more I do it the more I realize that there's actually a lot to it.

For example you can't push them directly backwards because they're on their knees, you can't use your legs as quickly as when you're standing and it's difficult to adjust to being pulled off balance because it's hard to move around unless you release a grip to post but even then your opponent could easily take your back since that arm on the ground is no longer blocking them.

What tricks do you use?

[everything]

I end up pulling guard because of the difficulties you mention or doing a pull down and trying to take the back but very dissatisfied with these options.

[Chris McKinley]

Pushing their head back over their balance point is even more direct and effective from this position, though their ability to resist is also increased a bit since their base is more stable (lower center of gravity and fewer joints). You might want to ask guys like Shooter and Meynard who make grappling more of a specialty.

IME, I've found that your clinch skills have to be stronger from this position to avoid lengthy stalemate. Also, it's vital to be very clear as to what your goal is....is it to take the guy further down to ground or to get back to your feet? In almost every instance of real combat, regaining a standing position is paramount. If your opponent is on his knees and you are standing, there is rarely a reason to try and take the other guy further to the ground unless you are in a sport tournament. If such is the case, though, then you might consider approaching the situation as a combination of ground n' pound and passing the guard. Closing, clinching then push kicking his thighs out from under him can work. So can pushing his torso over the balance point to either side, then treating the situation as a scramble for side control/mount.

Are we talking real combat or sport context here anyway? Weapons considerations can change your tactics considerably if it's a real situation.

[fuga]

I agree with much of what Chris has written.

Our training (sport context) pretty much always starts on the knees. I have been playing more with going to the top position, especially since everyone generally is bigger than me and I have come to realize the pulling guard should be a temporary transition to a better position.

My strategy has been to create a wedge forward with a knee while maintaining a strong base, kill a leg, and then work a guard pass to get to side control or top half-guard. Once in a while, I will go for the arm drag and take the back, or go for the arm drag, bind up the close side leg, then reach across and grab the other ankle and walk the other person over to side control.

Either way, I am trying to gain control of one side (either through killing a leg or the arm drag) so I can control their hips and pass. Look at the corners as the pathways to get to the hips.

Another factor to think about is fighting for grips, so it depends when you say starting on your knees, where you are? Are you already in a clinch? Are you within hand-to-hand grabbing range? Is the other person on both knees, one knee, seated?

Play with this like you are doing tuishou and see where it leads.

[johnwang]

Are you talking about when you have both knees on the ground, and your try to defend against your opponent trying to take you down further? IMO, both knees down position will force you to lost the mobility and "spring" ability. You may need to use one arm to push on the ground, borrow the counter force and bounce one of your leg up, and land on your foot. Now you have only one knee on the ground and you are in much better situation.

Not sure this is what you are talking about. But in sport SC, when your opponent put you in both knee down position (any 2 points besides your feet), that round is over. In combat, you will have all the freedom to pull out your Colt 45 and shoot.

[CaliG]

I'm speaking mostly in terms of a sport context. In BJJ we often start there and but we also end up there as this drill demonstrates.



I do agree that getting up is probably ideal but for a split second they may be able shoot in on you and if they've wrestled you just might go back down. Point being there are no absolutes...

Personally I usually aim for a dominant grip and bring them down to their side. But of course everything has counter...

Here are some techniques for the knees. Roy Harris even has a whole DVD dedicated to this position.



But I'm still curious what other people do or would do.

Is Butterball around?

[CaliG]

Are you talking about when you have both knees on the ground, and your try to defend against your opponent trying to take you down further? IMO, both knees down position will force you to lost the mobility and "spring" ability. You may need to use one arm to push on the ground, borrow the counter force and bounce one of your leg up, and land on your foot. Now you have only one knee on the ground and you are in much better situation.

Not sure this is what you are talking about. But in sport SC, when your opponent put you in both knee down position, that round is over. In combat, you will have all the freedom to pull out your Colt 45 and shoot.

Thanks JW. I'll try to use that once I get a good grip or have their hands tided up. I used to play with that but often times they or sometimes me will immediately grab that ankle and lift it and putting the guy on his back.

A little like this at the beginning but grabbing the ankle instead of reaching for the knee. Also here people can see how you can end up here a lot in ground grappling.



Also check the tie-up at 2:25! I'm going to steal that.

[everything]

jumping right into sweeps looks good. some of my training partners are very big, though, so I'm somewhat hesitant to try that with them. and injure myself in the process. also looking at aikido ideas though the assumed commitment seems too ridiculously big. in judo they encourage us to adapt regular standing throws and try them from knees.

[Areios]

same size i go for a half butterfly and elevator sweep, if he is smaller I pull him down and try to take the back or get a headlock. Bigger guys. Get agressive and try to get them on their back. I used some kinde of a dubleleg to get them flat. (it worked by surprice and because i was way faster) But that tactic didn't realy worked in the long run with the same partners. I switched a nother one but with bigger guys usualy end up on my back.

[Darthwing Teorist]

I go for the foot and grab it. I pull it forward while pushing the body of the opponent backward, sweeping the opponent.

My teacher demoed throws from the kneeling position or even from the ground, but I am able more or less to do them. Sometimes, I do a shoulder throw from the knees, if I can get my opponent's arm.

[Kurt Robbins]

What context is the question, submission grappling or MMA?