ILQ in different formats?

[Ian]

Hey ILQ guys.

From what I understand, a big part of ILQ is bridging and capturing your opponent's center on contact.

The drills you do seem to be mostly geared towards getting good at this in terms of bridging at the arms, facing your opponent square-on (correct me if I'm wrong).

What happens if someone grabs you from the side or back, e.g. in a standing rnc, headlock, or bear hug. Do you have any drills for this?

Do you have any work similar to what Mikhail is showing here?



Btw this is NOT a systema vs ILQ thread. I ask because I'm interested in ILQ as well.

Thanks.

[gosao]

I'm not a ilc guy but I remember some grabs from side and back examples from this schools clips.

[dragontigerpalm]

Yi Chuan is not I Liq Chuan.

[gosao]

^^really? I thought they were just different branches of I - quan style ::shrug:: my bad

[Kelley Graham]

there's a vid on the i-liqchuan site that show an application of 'circumference' force against a bear hug. it works.
http://i-liqchuan.com/Main/videos/I-LIQ ... DEMO03.wmv

btw, it's ILC, not ILQ.
best regards,

[ashe]

What happens if someone grabs you from the side or back, e.g. in a standing rnc, headlock, or bear hug. Do you have any drills for this?

it's tough to say since i don't have any experience with systema, but based on what i see in the video it seems they're working a lot more on "tai sabaki", which we train that as well (in a sense, i.e. we sometimes prefer to move our mass around the point rather than moving the point or use footwork to change position), but i would say that it has a different feel. i don't know really, again it's hard to compare.

what i can say is that your understanding of what's trained within spinning hands is not quite accurate and i think that if you understand the core principle contained within spinning hands that it might clear up some things.

spinning hands is not about position or bridging, those are a different part of the curriculum. the fundamental concept of spinning hands is to recognize the changing point of contact, i.e. what energy is present there(yin or yang, full or empty). when you can recognize that, then you know what action is correct automatically, and applies to any position or point of contact. the idea is that you would become "full" in 360º and three dimensions simultaneously.

another key concept is recognizing force. when you clearly recognize what force is present then you can, as we say, "catch the tip of the spear". it's the idea of a tsunami starting out as a small ripple in the water. when you can catch and disrupt the ripple then you can prevent it from becoming a wave. in other words, (if you're doing it right) then you would catch the application of a RNC or bear hug at the very, very beggining, before the opponent has gotten a lock on your mass and neutralize it there, rather than working on escapes from a choke or hold that's already mostly locked.

[Frazetta]

Nice answer, Ashe. Thanks.

[dragontigerpalm]

Nice answer, Ashe. Thanks.

+1
just something I would add from my experience to date is that while there are exercises and drills and applications from the forms both solo and with partners that incorporate the basic strategies and energies, there is the caveat that nothing should become a technique or a specific response.

[Ian]

Thanks for the responses.

it's tough to say since i don't have any experience with systema, but based on what i see in the video it seems they're working a lot more on "tai sabaki", which we train that as well (in a sense, i.e. we sometimes prefer to move our mass around the point rather than moving the point or use footwork to change position), but i would say that it has a different feel. i don't know really, again it's hard to compare.

I still have no idea what tai sabaki is.

If you mean evasive footwork, then no - I was talking about how Mikhail is standing stationary and affecting the structure of people as they grab him from different angles.

what i can say is that your understanding of what's trained within spinning hands is not quite accurate and i think that if you understand the core principle contained within spinning hands that it might clear up some things.

spinning hands is not about position or bridging, those are a different part of the curriculum. the fundamental concept of spinning hands is to recognize the changing point of contact, i.e. what energy is present there(yin or yang, full or empty). when you can recognize that, then you know what action is correct automatically, and applies to any position or point of contact. the idea is that you would become "full" in 360º and three dimensions simultaneously.

Thanks for the clarification. I've seen a few examples of what you're talking about i.e. applying peng jin (or whatever you guys call it) from the side.

another key concept is recognizing force. when you clearly recognize what force is present then you can, as we say, "catch the tip of the spear". it's the idea of a tsunami starting out as a small ripple in the water. when you can catch and disrupt the ripple then you can prevent it from becoming a wave. in other words, (if you're doing it right) then you would catch the application of a RNC or bear hug at the very, very beggining, before the opponent has gotten a lock on your mass and neutralize it there, rather than working on escapes from a choke or hold that's already mostly locked.

Pre-emptive movement is a 'must-practice', IMO, but so is recovering when conditions aren't ideal. Do you ever work on situations where the thing you're trying to prevent is happening or has already happened?

Anyway, I'll try not to say more about it as I haven't crossed hands with any ILC guys yet. Looking forward to training with them in Malaysia. I'm sure if I tried to put Sifu Heow in a headlock, something bad would happen

[ashe]

Do you ever work on situations where the thing you're trying to prevent is happening or has already happened?

the short answer is no.

we never train "scenarios" like that. i have done some work like that, just fooling around with other folks and what i've found is that due to the way we train in ILC, i can usually pick up on that type of stuff faster, and apply it sooner in real time compared to other folks.

[JoseFreitas]

Stupid question: I Liq Chuan would be Yi Li Quan in pinyin, right? Just asking out of curiosity. What area of China were the ILQ people from?

[dragontigerpalm]

I Liq Chuan was created in Malaysia.

[ashe]

Stupid question: I Liq Chuan would be Yi Li Quan in pinyin, right? Just asking out of curiosity. What area of China were the ILQ people from?

the Chins are hakka.

[shawnsegler]

I really want to get a chance to study with your teacher someday, Ashe.

I get a lot out of his teaching clips.

S

[ashe]

I really want to get a chance to study with your teacher someday, Ashe.

I get a lot out of his teaching clips.

S

You should try to make one of the bay area workshops. He's there twice a year, every November and May I believe.