Do you agree?

[Bao]

... "yin and yang should be clearly distinguished/carefully separated" ...

Do you agree with these statements?:

* The attacking hand is weak, the defending hand is strong.

* The weighted foot is weak, the empty leg is strong.

* The attacker follow, the defender lead.

[SPJ]

in old time, power and speed meant everything. if we are faster than the opponent, if we are stronger than the opponent, we may prevail.

so the goal is to train us faster and stronger.

however, there is always another higher mountain and deeper pond. so what if we run into someone faster and stronger than us, what to do?

here comes the ideas of Tai Ji boxing. how to use slowness/stillness to overcome fastness (movement), how to use a small force to deal with the opponent's stronger force, and even borrow his force to defeat himself.

the practice would be mostly in the steps/positioning and timing.

almost the end of the opponent's move is the start of our move. so we are slow in starting our move. (timing) but we are fast in the next move.

positioning/steps, we deal with the opponent's main force by stepping away or to the side. we are in new position to deal with his almost ending move etc.

the idea that at the extreme of one thing seeds the beginning of the opposing/opposite thing both in timing and positioning.

so yes.

1. the opponent's attacking hand is near its end, you move away from the original position when he starts his attack, either in steps, or rotation of the waist etc

your defending hand to deal with his attacking hand is at advantage in new position, and timing

2. the empty leg may turn into real leg, and the real leg may turn into empty leg, same are with the hands, left side vs right side, front vs rear and central shifting (5 steps) etc we are in a moving dynamic and we change according to the opponent.

3. we follow the opponent's move and force for the most part, we then neutralize and lead.

my point is that both yin and yang exist momentarily, we change.

if the opponent is yang, we go to his yin. if the opponent is yin, we go to his yang.

--

oops

biting my tongue.

[AllanF]

Not got time to write too much as i am on my way to teach...dam it!

I disagree the hands in taiji sound not be strong or weak as the power that comes from the hands/arms is not as good as that from the back (ming men) 2ndly to say that either hand is 'weak' sounds like there is nothing there at all, if that is what is meant then the technique will not work properly. There must be peng jin in the non-attacking hand...it should be relaxed but supporting not collapsed (weak). If it is weak then the opponent will feel the difference and could react accordingly. If you use hand/arm strength then again the opponent will feel it and respond accordingly the technique has to be applied so the opponent doesn't know it is coming.

[Bodywork]

... "yin and yang should be clearly distinguished/carefully separated" ...

Yes and no. They are each supported by the other. Are they distinguishable? Well for a split second I guess...when you fall down!..because your opponents were not. It is more important to realize that there are very real and managable ways to balance them in the body -in freestyle movement- in the body that leads to great manipulative power in motion. Its not a "theory" of unseen energy with little use. Some simple aspects are; the Spine and posture are erect like a scale, the waist turns like a wheel, which makes the power elusive and evasive. Of course this is just latteral, now you have spirals ad winding throughout the body that manipulate and create openings and strikes in a very mobile and tactictly viable manner.
And that leads to the answer to the next one:

* The attacking hand is weak, the defending hand is strong.

Nothing is strong(er) or weak(er) that are both supported by resolution of opposites. Push on the right you cane be elusive and drawing, while that leads to a hit fomr the left that is powerful and projecting. And that can mean push hands or kick ass your choice, add kicks and it can lead to throws and it can get to be fun.

* The weighted foot is weak, the empty leg is strong.

I'd think more in terms of the weighted hand on left should have full foot on right. Wieghted hand on right, full foot on left. Having a full hand and foot on the same side means...you go boom boom. Same side weighted is the prerequisite for a lot of grappling arts set ups and throws. Its a hell of a lot easier to move and enter and evade too as they try to set you up it keeps leading to free feet and hands to hit and kick with.

* The attacker follow, the defender lead.

Works the other way round too. Fights are about flow. All things being equal I will choose follow. Absorbing, reading, countering and redirecting, etc... The set-ups and counter punches and throws are easier.
Cheers
Dan

[Darth Rock&Roll]

no. lol

all yin has yang.
all yang has yin.

they cannot be separated, they are forever intertwined.

[shawnsegler]

If you're asking this question you should go practice more.

For real.

S

[Bao]

"Bodywork"=
"Nothing is strong(er) or weak(er) that are both supported by resolution of opposites."

Darth RR=
"all yin has yang.
all yang has yin.
they cannot be separated, they are forever intertwined."

I, personally, don't agree with this view. If both hands or legs are the same, it means that they are doubleweighted and that you can not distinguish full and empty. This is a sound advice in the taiji classics - you should know where your weight is, which part of the body is full and which is empty. Yin and yang are always togetrher, but in fact they are never equal, there is always one which is more than the other. If they were equal the advice in the taiji classics would be: "ALWAYS be doubleweighted".

"If you're asking this question you should go practice more."

If you agree or not, what do that have to do with my practice or level of it? That was my only question. The rest are statements, not questions. I am very certain about my view regarding these things and why. anyway, thanks for your concern...

[Bodywork]

"Bodywork"=
"Nothing is strong(er) or weak(er) that are both supported by resolution of opposites."

Darth RR=
"all yin has yang.
all yang has yin.
they cannot be separated, they are forever intertwined."

I, personally, don't agree with this view. If both hands or legs are the same, it means that they are doubleweighted and that you can not distinguish full and empty. This is a sound advice in the taiji classics - you should know where your weight is, which part of the body is full and which is empty. Yin and yang are always togetrher, but in fact they are never equal, there is always one which is more than the other. If they were equal the advice in the taiji classics would be: "ALWAYS be doubleweighted".

You are missing both our points alltogether and misquoting us. What I am saying is in agreement with and is stated in the classics.
Your weight and your center are perfectly in balance between the suspended and supported opposites of yin and yang. In motion against being pushed and pulled this would mean you have power in being negative against a push and drawing in on one side by self rotating and entering on the opposite side thus supported in the middle. One part becomes insubstantial and elusive but it is still power to support-the other side. Negative and positive together. Now add up and down. When you include up and down with rotational aspects you have winding and the complexity grows.
But in all of that your left hand, is supported by your right foot, your right hand supported by your left foot. If both feet, or both hands were doing the same things....you are thrown. I appreciate your comment but one thing I have never been accussed of is being doubleweighted as a body quality.
Cheers
Dan

[Darth Rock&Roll]

... "yin and yang should be clearly distinguished/carefully separated" ...

Do you agree with these statements?:

* The attacking hand is weak, the defending hand is strong.

* The weighted foot is weak, the empty leg is strong.

* The attacker follow, the defender lead.

More succintly, no.
As in I do not agree with those statements.
They are not absolutes though they may occur.

[Dmitri]

I think these are more like practice guidelines, which are mentioned because they stress the "unusualness" of some of the training ideas.
The other, more straightforward ideas like "The weighted foot is strong, the empty leg is weak" are just too obvious to mention, so they aren't. These will happen on their own, you don't need to specifically pay extra attention to those ideas in practic; it's the opposites that need special emphasis because they will likely be overlooked.

Hence IMHO the reason for the nature of these writings. Asking whether you agree or not is sort'a silly, in that context...

[Bao]

Body work: Thank you for explaining your view, I appreciate it.

it's the opposites that need special emphasis because they will likely be overlooked.

Exactly. Thanks.
If we think to simplistic it is easy to get stuck in a certain way of thinking and we will not develop further or as rapid as we could. We can use out thinking to find new aspects which help our practical practice.

Hence IMHO the reason for the nature of these writings. Asking whether you agree or not is sort a silly, in that context...

In this context yes, I agree, it might seem a little bit silly. But I think about it as slightly provocative. If you ask people something directly, it is more likely they will write some answer than if you merely state something.

[shawnsegler]

If you agree or not, what do that have to do with my practice or level of it? That was my only question. The rest are statements, not questions. I am very certain about my view regarding these things and why. anyway, thanks for your concern...

Sorry, I just kind of threw that out off the cuff last. I should have read the whole thing before I replied.

Didn't mean to come off all condescending or anything like that.

Mea Culpa.

Best,

S

[Bao]

It's ok Shawn, I understand. Thanks.

Cheers,
David

Sorry, I just kind of threw that out off the cuff last. I should have read the whole thing before I replied.
Didn't mean to come off all condescending or anything like that.

[DeusTrismegistus]

... "yin and yang should be clearly distinguished/carefully separated" ...

Do you agree with these statements?:

1) The attacking hand is weak, the defending hand is strong.

2) The weighted foot is weak, the empty leg is strong.

3) The attacker follow, the defender lead.

numbered for simplicity

For each I think it depends on how you think about it.

1-Yes. When you attack you extend and the more your extremities are extended the less power you have. A heavy weight may be hard to carry at arms length and easy to carry against your body. When you attack you extend while when you defend it is done closer to the body, hence stronger. At the same time a committed attack is vulnerable to deflection by very little force from the correct vector. The defending hand is positioned to be in the strongest position relative to an incoming attack.

2- Yes. One way to think about it is the weighted foot will be using a certain percentage of its power or strength to hold you up while the empty leg is not using any power. So the empty leg has more available to use. A different way to think about it is that the weighted leg is vulnerable to attack while the empty leg is not. If you kick the knee of a leg with weight on it you have a good chance of causing injury, if the leg has no weight on it and is loose and relaxed it will move with the strike and is much less likely to be injured.

2- Yes. The defender will leave opening when he defends against something which the attacker will then be the follower in striking the openings as they are presented. Also the attacker has to follow the direction the defender moves. If the defender steps away the attacker must follow and step forward if he wants to continue attacking. Although this dynamic will constantly change and move back and forth with the attacker and defender changing roles. However IMO after the initial movement both parties can be viewed as following the other.