Single Whip application

[Father_Jon]

I received a "correction" in my form from a teacher I don't have that much respect for; but, what the hell, it's his class...

What got me was the explanation for his modification:

In doing Single whip, I had been taught to touch the thumb, index and middle fingers in order to make the cranes' beak/buddha's hand/whatever. The correction that i received was to touch the thumb to the tips of all of the fingers: "otherwise you will break your hand when you hit someone."

This guy does not fight, I do, and have used the strike as I was taught. Forming the fist as he did seems to mis-align the bones of the hand for a strike.

What have you experiences been, either in training or in application?

[bruce]

i would ask myself how his advice relates to the application/intention of your hand position. is it grabbing? is it striking? is it deflecting? which hand position is good for each?

[Walk the Torque]

I would add that it depends what part of the hand you are striking with. With this cranes beak I use the outside edge of the hand and the top of the wrist; and I have to say I agree with you Father John, the "chi" is better with thumb,index and middle fingers touching. Even for grasping this position is better, as the fingers point back towards the wrist and so act to hook.

The only time I think that all fingers together is superior is when breaking out of a wrist grab using a circular coiling motion over the attackers wrist; the fingers help in applying an extra bit of leverage.

IME

[AllanF]

finger position touch index fingers etc or all fingers it really doesn't make any difference the usage is the same. The 'whip' hand is there to hook the opponents hand and 'whip' it back to strike (as one example of an application) but when you strike you can do it any way you wish, eg, you can also use the middle knuckle extended if you wish.

In regard to escaping a lock, you don't need to 'break out' of a lock. As it is being applied you channel the force down into your dan tian (chan si jin, silk reeling) then return it to the opponent (fa li) then turn it over (fan) locks are al lot easier to escape than most understand.

[GrahamB]

We touch all digits to the thumb in the 'beak' hand, but it's a stylised grab of an arm, not a strike. It just looks neater if all your digits touch the thumb. The only way striking with that hand formation would make sense is if you were striking upwards with the hard top of the wrist - yet that's not the movement in the form...

Single whip (Yang style) is one of those applications that I've never been happy with anybody's interpretation of the form movements. Their 'applications' never seem to actually work like the form does. Essentially I think Single Whip was 'broken' by Yang Cheng-Fu in his modification of the form, and has been kept 'broken' ever since by everything that followed in his wake - Cheng Fu, Beijing 24 step, etc...

If anybody has a video of them doing single whip application that actually works like their form I'd like to see it and be proved wrong - that would be great!

[Walk the Torque]

The only way striking with that hand formation would make sense is if you were striking upwards with the hard top of the wrist - yet that's not the movement in the form...

But Graham, I strike with the outside of my hand in this particular "hand posture" all the time! It makes perfect sense!

Single whip (Yang style) is one of those applications that I've never been happy with anybody's interpretation of the form movements. Their 'applications' never seem to actually work like the form does.

The wrist release I spoke of earlier comes directly from the form movement as taught to me; as does the following movement with the transition to" raise hands".

If anybody has a video of them doing single whip application that actually works like their form I'd like to see it and be proved wrong - that would be great!

I have just got to get a goddam camera!

.

In regard to escaping a lock, you don't need to 'break out' of a lock. As it is being applied you channel the force down into your dan tian (chan si jin, silk reeling) then return it to the opponent (fa li) then turn it over (fan) locks are al lot easier to escape than most understand.

Maybe "break out " was a bad term, but if you can free your hands from a vice like grip in a disadvantages position, you stand a much better chance of countering. I was just talking about "getting out" of a bad position and into a good one.

[GrahamB]

I have just got to get a goddam camera!

Yes, please do - you could always borrow one from a friend you know? It would make it so much easier to work out what you're talking about.

Do any of these vids look like the way you do it?

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... pplication

(Some of these just look, frankly, bizarre to me)

[GrahamB]

Hell's Bells!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZEx3KZ5Wio

Now I see where I've been doing it wrong all along - I need magic chi energy like this!

[middleway]

That ... was .... awesome!!! but was that dudes breath stopped??

[GrahamB]

That man was positionally asphyxiated out of the building!

[bailewen]

http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/7594384-1306706782.html

[king-kong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiPPHMIk5_k

[JoseFreitas]

My teacher has us do Single Whip with all the fingers touching. I used to do it with only three fingers touching and he offered the following advice "This is Taiji, not badly done Praying Mantis". So there you go...

Also, I was under the impression that the "whip" part of Single Whip meant the other hand, the one that doesn't have the fingers touching.... for a pretty good app see Su Dong Chen's application of it, can't locate the URL here.

[roger hao]

The single whip application is the one that everyone was trying to
make work with Flying Diagnol - except it works with Single Whip.

[Bao]

I used to do it with only three fingers touching and he offered the following advice "This is Taiji, not badly done Praying Mantis".

The mantis use the hook, or gou ( 勾 ), as we call it in Taiji. We can use it in taijiquan as well, but many people can not distinguish neither these two formations nor their different applications. Let a beak be a beak and a hook be a hook, don't confuse them together. For hooking, a rule is that beak is a fixed hand formation which does not change in the application. But the gou is formed as you apply a move. The beak is a stronger formation, the hook is more flexible. It is important to distunguish the different usages so you know which one is best to use due to circumstances.