the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

haha kidding

about hidden strikes... do you have any specific drills in your style to make your strikes as hidden as possible?

apart from the general idea of making them as short as possible (i.e. lots of power with little discernible movement)?

Hi Ian,

Not raising the shoulders as you strike or telegraphing your striking with build ups of tension or intent, striking under or along their limbs, striking from strange angles normally outside of the field of vision, 'capturing the gaze' prior to striking, taking the intent in one direction then cutting that line.... one of the main points in most stuff i have done is to make your strikes come from unexpected places angles and position so essentially they are hidden and more liable to knock out.

Regards,
Chris

The ubiquituous "strike the eyes with fingers" move which is traditional CMAs ultimate weapon vs MMA (kidding guys...) can actually be pretty good for this kind of stuff. I don't particularly care for actually striking people's eyes, but it's a good way to distract their attention, provoke a reaction, get them to chase the hand and/or set them up for a proper strike/qinna.

Reading what I wrote, that actually seems pretty uningenious and obvious actually, esp. written out, but that's what came to my mind from the Baji arsenal.

This is a pretty common opening in the Baji approach anyway and could lead into any number of things. Puts your hands in the right space (right there close to the opponent). It's both your hands alternating and going forward in rapid succession, your action depending on the reaction:
1 - arm goes out and either A) draws defending hand away or B) strikes the eyes
2 - A) other arm strikes the eyes, B) other arm strikes the opening
3 - ... branches out in a similar fashion, either you taking their continued defence apart or striking, depending on what happens.

That actually reminds me of Chisao somewhat, but we don't train it like that in Baji. You just do your thing.

The dragon form I learnt has some hidden strikes, ie they are sneaky. Except for some elbows its mainly normal range techniques though you just use your body to hide where its coming from.

Speaking from a hakka perspective 'no shadow strikes' are those that the power is felt not the movement. I.e: having played with a few guys lately I noticed that from contact position their strikes/movements where really quite telegraphed in that there was some minute retraction or chambering prior to the attempt to hit, in our system there should not be that chambering prior to the strike, if the obstacle clears the strike/s leak through.

Also we train a couple of short sharp tri-cep driven strikes that have no lead from the torso, as well as some tricky start positions for those awkward times that people are in your face talking tough.

"Hey look! Angelina Jolie is working out naked!!" *Kick to the Balls*

If do right, no can defense....

Develop the intention by visualizing the move over and over again until it is strong enough to "pull" it out of your body. Then the physical motion is almost an afterthought.

I understand Ark Wong used to get in a lot of sneaky strikes that way.

Are strikes that continue from intercept/block considered hidden by your definition?

Otherwise I use my 肛门功！

If you want to study how to hide your strikes, you can learn some card magic, how magicians move their hands so that one hand will get attention, so the other can do a maneuver without the spectator to notice it. One rule is that the hand which draws attantion to it should start to move earlier than the "magic" hand. The first hand will lead and the other hand will seem to follow the body movement natural. When you strike or feint, you can let the back hand follow the rest of the body, while hiding it slightly behind the other arm. Then strike with it before the first hand has made a complete move (before starting pulling back). If you can separate the two arm movements and use them separately in this manner described, you might be able to launch and hit with the second fist without him even noticing it.

middleway wrote:Hi Ian,

Not raising the shoulders as you strike or telegraphing your striking with build ups of tension or intent, striking under or along their limbs, striking from strange angles normally outside of the field of vision, 'capturing the gaze' prior to striking, taking the intent in one direction then cutting that line.... one of the main points in most stuff i have done is to make your strikes come from unexpected places angles and position so essentially they are hidden and more liable to knock out.

Regards,
Chris

Nice. That's exactly how I train.

chimerical tortoise wrote:Are strikes that continue from intercept/block considered hidden by your definition?

Otherwise I use my 肛门功！

They can be, but not really. I mean your fists are already near my person so a) they're within my FOV, and b) being that close, realistically, I already expect to get hit and that creates 'tension', which means you're creating problems for yourself in terms of making your strikes penetrate.

Besides, that's just one way of many to hide your strikes.

Ian wrote:to hide your strikes.

If you want to

- use your strike to build a bridge.
- use your bridge to create an arm wrapping, and
- use your arm wrapping to execute your throw.

You may not want to hide your strike, instead, you may want to telegraph your strike as much as possible. When I punch, I want to tell my opponent, "My punch is coming, you better to raise your arm to block it". That raising arm is what I really want and not his head.