Moving vs. standing for "health"

[johnwang]

If you move around (walking, running, sole drill, form training, ...) for 2 hours vs. stand still (ZZ, ...) for 2 hours, which one can give you more benefit in "health" (we are not talking about combat here)?

Chinese saying said, "If you move a tree, that tree will die. If you move a human body, that person will live longer." It seems to me that the key for longevity is "moving around" and not "standing still".

So why people prefer ZZ than "moving around"? What can ZZ gives you that 5 miles walking won't be able to give you?

[SPJ]

both are necessary.

1. standing practice or jin gong. practice to be focused, relaxed, and be all still.

2. walking or moving practice. dong gong.

for the 1.

a. practice to be still in a posture for as long as you could. sort of endurance or maintaining the state of stillness. the longer the better, since we may totally rest our mind and muscle while maintain a full awareness of our body relative to the environment. we may sense the wind, hear the birds chirping, water flowing in the stream, smell the flagrance from flowers, ---

b. practice to be all focused, relaxed and still. once you may reach that state totally, then you may stop. in this case, 25 min is enough.

---

health aspect

1. jin gong: we slow our heart rate, quiet/rest/clear our mind, slow our breathing. etc this would help us live longer.

2. moderate exercise, swimming, walking, jogging, would improve circulation, heart/lung functions. again it is also helping our health.

our body and mind is like that of a rubber band, if we are tensed in our mind and body all the time, it will break easily.

if we relax and tense a bit, or we be still and move a bit, we may maintain some elasticity/flexibility in our body and mind.

----

[johnwang]

the state of stillness.

I have heard that someone had spent so much time in sitting medatation and became paralyze from the waist down. The day that I feel 站着不如坐着, 坐着不如趟着 (prefer sitting over standing, prefer laying down over sitting), I may be truly too old and lost all the quality of life.

I just finished my 4 miles running 3 hours ago. My body feel full of energy right now. I just can't get the same kind of feeling if I did my 13 Tai Bao postures training for 40 minutes.

It seems to me that the more that I move, the more that I feel like to move. The less that I move, the less that I feel like to move. I know that I don't talk like an ICMA guy. Is it just me or others that may feel the same way?

[Walk the Torque]

I love to move and there are certain things that movement give me that being still doesn't; however I have the idea that if I had not done so much standing and being still, I would not enjoy my movement as much.

[Chowfarn]

Both are very different types of power.

In the Kunlun Qigong system I study (Dayan Qigong: originally a Taoist system / now just for health)- there are 22 sections in its modern system:
You learn 8 moving forms & some basic meditations - before moving on to higher levels of meditation.

According to our system moving forms are great but only through meditation can you achieve higher levels of Qi development.
It explains that moving forms help people lead the Qi & develops Waqi (external Qi).
Meditation & ZZ etc. builds inner Qi (Neqi: internal Qi).

Once you reach a certain level in training in Meditation - you should feel movement: "Small heavenly circle".

As for other health systems:
Things like Reiki & Yogi (from what I've seen) do not have some much 'moving' forms - more just holding postures & mediation.

As for meditation dangers:
I've read about Japanese people (Through poor training supervision) doing excessive Zen meditation & losing touch with reality.
Sort of walking in front of trains stuff etc.

[Areios]

the state of stillness.

I have heard that someone had spent so much time in sitting medatation and became paralyze from the waist down. The day that I feel 站着不如坐着, 坐着不如趟着 (prefer sitting over standing, prefer laying down over sitting), I may be truly too old and lost all the quality of life.

I just finished my 4 miles running 3 hours ago. My body feel full of energy right now. I just can't get the same kind of feeling if I did my 13 Tai Bao postures training for 40 minutes.

It seems to me that the more that I move, the more that I feel like to move. The less that I move, the less that I feel like to move. I know that I don't talk like an ICMA guy. Is it just me or others that may feel the same way?

+1 Defenetly moving is much more better for me. I don't like to stand around. Sometimes it's good but not for a long time.

[edededed]

Why not do baguazhang walking then? Some people call it a kind of 行樁.

Usually, "zhuang"-type practices are balanced out with moving practices (even just stretching, etc.).

[Bao]

Zz, meditation and similar exercises are not about external stillness, but internal movement.

External movement benefits your muscles and excitement is good for your heart. Internal movement benefits your nervous system and calmness is good for your brain.

What is best for your health? You need another answer first. What is your physical and mental condition? Or what would be best for you. The answers are all individual. Different methods benefits different persons of different ages, different health conditions etc.
,

[bailewen]

I'm not sure I am holding up to the standard but supposedly I am supposed to be doing at least the same amount of still training as moving. One hour of moving training should, in theory, be supported by one hour of still training.

[Areios]

Why not do baguazhang walking then? Some people call it a kind of 行樁.

Usually, "zhuang"-type practices are balanced out with moving practices (even just stretching, etc.).

It's a strange thing but sprint running is not hurting my knees so much as circle walking. (I have one realy bad knee) Even if it's not an over streched walk. But defenetly like it just can't do it for a long period.

[C.J.Wang]

Speaking from personal experience, standing meditation (Zhan Zhuang) is one of the best and most effective healing methods I've come across.

I used to hate ZZ simply because it felt boring to me. It wasn't until I met a teacher who taught me the finer points of ZZ for health, and later someone else for martial purposes, that I began to practice and appreciate its effectiveness.

As for martial ZZ, it's anything but easy. There's a lot going on inside the body that isn't visible externally, which is why it is difficult to judge by appearance whether someone is doing it correctly. Even with the exact same posture, a person could be simply "standing there" for 30 minutes and get nothing out of the practice besides a pair of sore legs, while another person who knows what he is doing could stand for 3 minutes and achieve greater results.

[everything]

If we can consider taiji form as a sort of moving zhan zhuang, then there are some studies that concluded (for seniors):

- taiji lowered BP about the same (slightly less) than the group who did light walking.
- taiji lowered the risk of falling (also important for health and quality of life, especially in seniors) more than did walking.

Common sense conclusion? Yeah, why not do both? Cardio increases your heart's strength to pump blood around. Meditation improves your mind/body ability to relax and let go of tension, reducing BP.

[Interloper]

If you do ZZ correctly, you are using intent to fire activity throughout your body, including your skeletal frame, circulatory, cardiopulmonary and even nervous systems. When I stand in ZZ, I break a sweat and get a "buzz" within 30 seconds.

It's not a full training regimen in and of itself for either martial use or health, but as the breakfast-cereal ads say, "It's a nutritious part of a balanced breakfast." Probably a little moreso.

[Ian]

what about moving standing?

[D_Glenn]

There is something gained in proper ZZ that becomes lost when you start to move too much. A saying in Bagua is that 1 hour of ZZ is equal to 2 hours of circle walking, which like Ed said is a type of moving standing because the arms are still static, but it would take roughly 8 hours of line drills and moving fast forms to equal 1 hour of ZZ. Basically when we don't move, our bodies still produce the same amount of energy but it doesn't all get used, when we move fast we use most of what is produced, and if we go to the point of being out of breath, then we use more than is being produced. Once energy is converted from one form to another it can't be converted back so it gets stored somewhere.

Taijiquan is also supposed to be a moving standing practice. My Grandteacher said the good taiji fighters he used to know would take 2 hours to go through the long form one time. 'Taiji should move like molasses.'

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