Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby ppscat on Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:45 pm

Taijiquan began to be practiced in Southamerica in the early 70's, almost isolated from US, Europe and China until the 90's when Internet connected us all. Here in RSF there's a lot of information and debate on TJQ's evolution in China, but not in the West, at least explicitly. I'm trying to catch up, so please help me with this chronological list attempt:

- there were many independent masters teaching there stuff, but no big schools back until
- Cheng Man Ching introduced TJQ in the US to the broad audience in the 60's
- Yang and Wu styles hit first, more focused on health and hua jin (rollback, etc) in PH
- Fast Forms and Two man sets
- Then Chen & Zhaobao and similars with focused in peng jin, fa jin, silkreeling and chinna
- Crossover with Shuai Chiao
- Then a change of focus from styles and applications to basic stuff like kettlebells and plyometrics

I'm sure I'm missing big facts of history, dates, names, impact of Bruce Lee, JMA, TWD, PH and SC tournaments, crossover with BG and XY, LHBF. Also Qigong and wushu. Any input would help a lot. Thanks! :)

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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby Areios on Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:50 pm

well i think there is a big influence from combatsports.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby everything on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:18 pm

on the other end of the spectrum there are all the health studies, and tai chee is probably now offered at every senior center of mid to large cities. no idea when that started.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby shawnsegler on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:25 pm

Kuo Lien Ying had a big impact on taiji on the west coast in 60's
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby Bill on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Also, there was a woman teaching at the UN in the 60's. She's so famous I can't remember her name.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:45 pm

Before taecheee got known to a wider public, it had much more martial quality. Then the 24 form came together with wooshoo and almost destroyed western Taecheee. But I guess 99.99 % of all martial arts are crap anyway, regardless what it's called - Kungfu, Budo, PMA, FMA, MMA or other shit.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby klonk on Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:07 pm

Bill wrote:Also, there was a woman teaching at the UN in the 60's. She's so famous I can't remember her name.


That'd be Sophia Delza, I think. Wu style?
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:16 pm

Progress of Taijiquan in the West:


Cheng Man-ching
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V
US
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Crapper

:D
Last edited by Chris McKinley on Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby cerebus on Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:54 pm

Chris McKinley wrote:Progress of Taijiquan in the West:


Cheng Man-ching
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V
US
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V
Crapper

:D


Pretty close, but not entirely. William C. C. Chen has maintained the combat integrity of Tai Chi right along. Gotta have respect for that...
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:39 pm

WCCC is a statistical outlier, though I have a lot of respect for what he's doing. I visited him years ago and thought that he had some good energy for a CMC guy.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby ppscat on Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:17 pm

So TJQ was introduced in the US and UK rather earlier than I thought, never heard of Choy Hok Peng and Kuo Lien Ying though seen some of the Guang Ping style in youtube. I thought that Aikido was on fashion in the 50's and 60's and that CMC was able to capture part of those people aiming for a softer martial art.

When fixed-step and moving-step tournaments began?
Who were the big names back in the 80's? Mike Patterson, Kumar Francis?
Is nowadays shuai chiao part of any TJQ school curriculum?
Is kettlebells and plyometrics as much as practiced as publicized?

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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby RobP2 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:37 am

You forgot the "dim mak" phase of the 90s

Plus, I dont think kettlebells are a TJQ thing
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby PatrickH on Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:07 am

I'd just like to add that that rather large country to the north of the US has a TJQ trad dating back to the 60s when Lee Shiu Pak started teaching in Montreal.
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby cerebus on Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:25 am

Yeah, Kuo Lien Ying was by all accounts a certified Bad-ass. And that on top of being one of the healthiest looking old dudes I've ever seen (only seen in pics though, never got to meet him).
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Re: Evolution of Taijiquan in the West

Postby Bill on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:12 am

klonk wrote:[ That'd be Sophia Delza, I think. Wu style?


Sophia Delza

A graduate of Hunter College, she trained as a modern dancer and toured the United States performing Spanish and modern dance during the 1920's.

She also performed with her sister, Elizabeth, in the late 1920's at the Neighborhood Playhouse.

She lived in Shanghai from 1948 to 1951 and was the first American dancer to teach modern dance in Chinese theater and dance schools.

Ms. Delza also became an expert on Chinese theatrical dancing after studying action dance roles in the classical Chinese theater with Wang Fu-Ying and Cheng Chuan-Chien. She gave lectures and dance recitals on the material throughout the United States.

She was fascinated by the T'ai Chi Ch'uan practiced in the parks, but unable to find anyone willing to teach a Westerner. A back injury during a Chinese dance class led to referral to Master Ma Yueh-liang, who agreed to allow her to become his student, and they remained close until her death.

She founded the Delza School of Tai Chi Chuan at Carnegie Hall in 1954 and later taught at schools including the State University of New York at Purchase, the Actor's Studio and the University of Hawaii.

She also taught and lectured on tai chi in live appearances and on television, writing the first book in English on the subject.

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Last edited by Bill on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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