Does sweep exist in all CMA styles?

[Ian]

I think you can say that the beginning of the 摆莲腿 can be a sweep. Never think this way before but the intend of the hand movement is a bit hard to explain. Also if you use it for sweep then your eyes should look at the contact point which should be below your right leg and not in front of you. By looking at the eyes focus, I may say that his intend is not sweep. If this is a hidden move, it definitely hide very well by changing the eyes focus.

It's not hidden at all. And once you have kicked out his leg, it's actually very beneficial to look in the direction of where your opponent is falling.

Example

Just to be sure - you're not saying this Cung le throw is the same as the taiji kick, are you?

[cdobe]

Just to be sure - you're not saying this Cung le throw is the same as the taiji kick, are you?

It's basically the same as the transition to the kick.

Here is another example at the bottom of the page.
http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/informatio ... n10_1.html

If a practitioner tells you that it is practiced this way, what's the point of all the bitching ?

[Ian]

Just to be sure - you're not saying this Cung le throw is the same as the taiji kick, are you?

It's basically the same as the transition to the kick.

Oh the transition to the kick! I thought you meant the kick itself.

If you do the kick on your left side (to match Cung le's throw more closely), the leg sweeps from right to left, and the hands from left to right. It's the polar opposite throw. The uke would land on his front, not his back.

But the transition - I agree - it's the same throw.

If a practitioner tells you that it is practiced this way, what's the point of all the bitching ?

Hey, I do IMAs as well, not just systema

[C.J.Wang]

Not every style of CMA does sweeps with big, exaggerated motions like in SC. In northern mantis, for example, the sweeps are usually kept low and without lifting the sweeping leg up high.

In some of the southern styles I've been exposed to, the sweeping techniques -- called "iron broom legs" -- are also done low, sometimes even with feet touching the ground and gliding.

The move that you have just described also exists in both LF and PM. It's called 小敲 (Xiao Qiao) - little knock, a more conservative sweep. IN SC, it's called scoop kick instead. It's much easy to escape out of it because it's not very high (the higher you sweep, the harder for your opponent to escape).

That's interesting to know.

I think when similar throwing moves are compared between a grappling-oriented style like SC and other CMA systems, we have to take into consideration the difference in "priority."

In SC, the priority is obviously to "throw", whereas in other CMA systems, throwing is just a part of the whole picture that accompanies punching, kicking, and locking. So even though lifting the leg up high may increase the chances of taking down the opponent in a sweep for a SC player, a CMA "boxer" would be concerned whether the raised leg compromises his ability to apply subsequent moves in the punching, kicking, and locking departments.

[cloudz]

Yes there is a footsweep in the turn (transition) that precedes the crescent kick, that matches the one john is asking for.
It's the same in Yang style


As was also demonstrated by CXW in a clip posted here a kick like that can set up the back foot sweep found in repulse monkey. though the way repulse monkey is commonly done in Yang style forms doesn't quite match how it is performed in Wu style form.

[RobP2]

A Yang medium frame basic application version is at 1:34



cheers

Rob

[Darth Rock&Roll]

In learning 4 different styles of chinese ma, they all had sweeps.

[Xingyifan]

As far as I know, the low kicks in the little Baiji form is not sweep. If your upper body is not rotated to the opposite direction as your leg moves, it doesn't follow the sweep principle.

The Huo family small baji form I was taught has a short sweep in the 2nd half of the form (like the Cung Le sweep posted). My teacher taught me to do it just like the tan tui technique , and also often with a two handed pull rather than the hook and palm. Han Jitang does it at the 2:30 mark in this vid:

Couldn't watch your vid for some reason, so I'm not 100% sure what sweep you're talking about.

[I am...]

The sweep is found in Hung Gar in the the movement "hook and spring leg".

[johnwang]

It's not hidden at all. And once you have kicked out his leg, it's actually very beneficial to look in the direction of where your opponent is falling.

I was comparing to the old Yang Taiji "lotus kick" that you meet your hands to your foot. The intend is the contact point between the hand and the foot. Aparently the Wu style does this differently from the old Yang style.

In these photos of Wu Jian Chien performing Wu Stle there is some influence of posing and looking at the camera. Photography was pretty new at the time as well so the concept of snapping shots as a form was performed was not possible. These are very much static shots.

I would say the two examples shown in the vids I posted of Wu Style and Chen Style demonstrate a sweep ( albeit in various gradations and situations/distances, especially in the san shou footage.)

This could explain the intend.



This is my favor training method. Simple drills left and right.

[chimerical tortoise]

In some of the southern styles I've been exposed to, the sweeping techniques -- called "iron broom legs" -- are also done low, sometimes even with feet touching the ground and gliding.

FWIW,
Sweeps do exist in 2nd/3rd VT forms, I have not learned them. I've seen them explained and applied by senior practitioners but a high degree of relax/stability are prerequisite. More than that I don't think I'm qualified to observe.

[johnwang]

In some of the southern styles I've been exposed to, the sweeping techniques -- called "iron broom legs" -- are also done low, sometimes even with feet touching the ground and gliding.

At 0.08 and 0.09 you can see the little knock (小敲 Xiao Qiao) there. At 0.34, 0.36, and 0.37 you can see that the PM waist chop are done in 3 different ways, the leg trip, the little knock, and the sweep.

http://johnswang.com/my_pm.wmv

The sweep can also be seen in the LF form Mai Fu Chuan #1 at 0.44.

http://johnswang.com/my_mai_fu_1.wmv

The clear "intend" are shown in both forms and not hidden in any way.

[velalavela]

BTW apologies for my rubbish spelling in my post. I should know better. I meant to spell 'Wu Chien-ch'uan'

[Bill]

Thank you for that nice pm form. I always enjoy your form performance.


p.s. wonderful mullet!

[H2O]

http://judoinfo.com/images/video/mifune1a.wmv

Above is some good leg work from Judo, and just to throw a wrench in the conversation:

In Judo, there are many leg techniques that look like sweeps. But a sweep is very specific. When you sweep, you take someone's foot (and hence their balance), right before their foot touches the ground. If there foot touches the ground, like Master Wang describes with the banana peel, it is not a sweep anymore, it is a gake. Gaki is 'hooking' which is like pulling out the root.

I've never come across 'sweeps' in Shuai Chiao. We would use Gaki all day long though. Thing is, when I was in Shuai Chiao, they were called sweeps.

So if we're going to discuss sweeps, how would you define the word?